October 01, 2018

HighWire: The Brave Ones Video and Transcript

Transcript of Video Regarding Kennedy/Hazlehurst DOJ Petition

Del Bigtree: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are out there in the world, I’m here in the Big Apple for one of the biggest shows The High Wire has ever put together. Jenny McCarthy and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are joining JB Handley to support his brand new book, How To End The Autism Epidemic, which just released yesterday and is already a best seller. Then Rolf Hazlehurst an Assistant District Attorney General has joined forces with Bobby Kennedy to fight a legal battle against the Department of Justice implicating them in a cover up over his son’s vaccine induced autism. It all happens right now, so let’s get out on The High Wire.

Del Bigtree: Well, this is episode 77 of The High Wire, and probably this is the episode I’ve been dreaming of doing before we even started The High Wire. I know there’s many of you been watching every week following us as we cover the issue of health and sciences, specifically vaccines, pesticides, herbicides, all these things that are poisoning us here in America and around the world. But I want to focus my attention right now on those of you that are joining us for the very first time. Today what you’re going to see is many of the people that have been involved in trying to get forward the idea that vaccines may not be as safe as we’ve all been told. I am Del Bigtree, I worked on the daytime talk show The Doctors for six years, I won an Emmy award celebrating the best that medicine has to offer. The best doctors, best scientists, cutting edge techniques. I’ve scrubbed into hundreds of OR’s and shot surgeries myself. I’m a fan of great science.

Del Bigtree: My life changed when I stumbled upon the story of Dr. William Thompson, a whistle blower at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that came forward in 2014 and said that the CDC was committing scientific fraud on the vaccine safety studies, especially when it was looking at the MMR, the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, and its connection to autism. I made a movie, a documentary called Vaxxed, which arguably has sort of helped this movement, this vaccine risk awareness movement really gain steam. Now, as you are probably aware if you’re tuning in today, this is a discussion that’s on the front of everyone’s minds.

Del Bigtree: But today’s a spectacular day because just yesterday a brand new book by JB Handley came online. It’s called How To End The Autism Epidemic, it’s selling out all over the country, and JB Handley, whether you know him or not, you may remember him on television, because he made a splash with this appearance on The Doctors television show. This is JB Handley.

JB Handley: From 1994, we added eight vaccines to our schedule. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon or an ER doctor to figure out there might be a correlation.

Travis Stork: Vaccines have been studied.

JB Handley: I’m so sick of doctors who don’t read the studies, who don’t know the details, sitting here telling parents and reassuring them that vaccines don’t cause autism. It is irresponsible.

Travis Stork: And this is the biggest problem and the reason that doctors in this country are frustrated.

JB Handley: Read the science.

Travis Stork: Because listen, all you’re doing is you’re antagonizing a medical community that wants to help these kids.

JB Handley: You haven’t done the research.

Travis Stork: Okay, you’re antagonizing me, you’re antagonizing Dr. Shears, why would you do that?

Del Bigtree: JB Handley. You obviously lit it up on The Doctors television show, you’re famous for it. We play that clip every time we talk to you.

JB Handley: Every time.

Del Bigtree: It’s a lot of fun, because someone that I’ve never really seen, I worked with Travis Stork so often, I never really saw him get rattled like that. That was a rare moment. But I think for those of us watching, when we see that video, we see what looks like a father against a doctor. A father who, apparently you have an injured child yourself.

JB Handley: Yup.

Del Bigtree: But you were so eloquent and so clear. Tell me about your story. How did you get into this and why were you so effective in that moment on television do you think?

JB Handley: The first thing I would say is that I think that Travis hit a nerve in a lot people, because there’s a flippancy and an arrogance about the average physician and it really manifests on this vaccine issue where so many pediatricians, they shut parents down. He let everybody see that on a national stage. What was different in that situation was that I had literally just gotten done reading every bit of science on this topic that existed to that point, and I was astonished when I realized that all this talk about the science has been done on vaccines and autism, there was one vaccine, MMR, and one ingredient, thimerosal, that had actually been studied. To me that’s not a comprehensive study of whether or not vaccines cause autism.

Del Bigtree: Not when there’s 16 vaccines we give to our children.

JB Handley: You know, my son goes into a two month appointment, they line up six vaccines, they give them to him in 10 minutes. You say, “Well MMR doesn’t cause autism.” Guess what Del? The MMR didn’t come until 12 months of age. At the two, four and six month appointment, they have no idea whether or not they might be causing autism. And in my book, Dr. [Plodkin 00:05:34] reveals that DTP and autism have never been studied. He actually concedes it. One of the titans of the mainstream vaccine world.

JB Handley: Let me go back to why I’m even here. I wish I wasn’t here. I wish I didn’t know you. I wish that I was a quiet little businessman living my life and worrying about my kids being on sports teams and everything else. That’s the really the life that my wife and I always wanted for our family. We had a first son and then we had a second son. And we had a pediatrician in northern California and we entrusted him 100% with the safety and well being of our kids. With my second son there was a stair step physical decline after every vaccine appointment.

JB Handley: From almost the day he was born we were living under extreme conditions because we were so worried about his health. After his two month appointment he got eczema the next day and he stopped sleeping through the night. In fact he could only sleep for 10 minutes at time. Imagine what that does to a family

Del Bigtree: Gee whiz, yeah.

JB Handley: Like any well meaning parents who still believed in their pediatrician, we would take our son back in. What’s going on? Oh, let’s put him on antibiotics now. And by the time he got to about a year old it went from just being physical symptoms to a regression in his development and then to neurological manifestations, where he was doing unusual things with his hands, he was running back and forth along walls, he wasn’t playing with toys, he stopped pointing. All the things that any parent of a child with autism is nodding right now as they hear me tell the story.

JB Handley: We got put at a fork in the road. We’re in the Bay Area in northern California. We go to UCSF to get our son diagnosed with autism, and he does immediately. They tell us that it’s a lifelong condition, that there’s probably no hope for recovery from that. We had already started to read a little bit about alternative therapies, and they told us that diet and other things were a placebo for parents. Meaning that there was no substance to it.

Del Bigtree: So you’re reading parents saying-

JB Handley: We’re starting to read online. We’re just trying to figure out what … I didn’t know what autism was.

Del Bigtree: Right.

JB Handley: Rain Man was all I knew. This is 2004. There wasn’t that much online, to be honest. At the same time, we said you know what, we’re going to explore some of these other things we’re reading about. Two Stanford educated parents. We’re going to go down to Pleasanton where there’s what they called a DAN doctor at that point. We meet this DAN doctor, she’s a trained MD, formal and professional and running a great clinic. She has a son who’s affected, and she’s recovering children. So we’re put at this crossroads with two completely worlds, and this is one of the first points of my book. One is a PhD and one is a MD, we’re sitting in the middle as parents and we’re being offered these alternative paths.

Del Bigtree: Two totally different stories. Two different scenarios.

JB Handley: It’s genetic.

Del Bigtree: Two totally different sets of facts.

JB Handley: Yeah, and I gave this speech one time, what would you do? What would you do as a parent? Over here, it’s an environmental illness, it has a cause, and children recover. You ask these doctors who treat these children, “Well how many children do you recover?” I’ve had physicians say dozens, not everyone recovers but they all get better. So here we are basically being asked to make a jump right off of the mainstream and into this alternative world. We did. And I mention in my book, it almost made us more angry as he responded to the therapies. When we took gluten out and the eye contact returned, when the belly became less distended, we almost got more mad. Are you kidding me? They could be helping these kids but they’re giving parents this advice instead?

Del Bigtree: Right. And just to be clear, the mainstream advice is telling you do not listen to these DAN doctors, do not listen to these people that are saying they can recover, it’s a placebo for you, it will do nothing for your child. It must have been … To walk out on a doctor, I mean we’re trained to trust our doctors. Right?

JB Handley: We even innocently – and I know many parents would understand this experience – we even innocently went back to our pediatrician with all this new information, and this guy with a koala bear on his stethoscope, he went from being Mr. Happy Go Lucky to Travis Stork.

Del Bigtree: Really?

JB Handley: And we had this very defensive encounter where we laid all this information out, and he was shaking, and we were shaking, and that was the moment that everything changed. And that was how it started. I think that my wife and I had a quiet outrage at that point and we really couldn’t believe what was happening. As time went by and as our son started to get a little better, it had taken us so long to gather all this biomedical information on how to treat children that we decided to start, it was really a website called Generation Rescue, and we would put all the information on there, and then we’d met a bunch of great parents all over the country and they became what we called rescue angels so that any parent could find a rescue angel in their local community and get started on biomed to try to recover their kid.

JB Handley: We went into the community focused on recovery, but the problem is you can’t start talking about recovery without talking about causation.

Del Bigtree: Right, and that’s what I think your book, it’s so … By the way, JB, and I called you after I read the book and I said, “I think you may be about to put me out of a job.” And I’m happy. I can’t wait to get back to making movies and realize that this is behind us and we have come to the conclusion, and science is back on track, really looking at the danger of these vaccines. Whatever they gotta do. Certainly pull out any vaccine that’s dangerous. As far as I can tell, they all are. If they can be made safer, then do it, but the science has to be done.

Del Bigtree: We hear time and time again that the science is settled, these crazy people like JB Handley, there is no proof that vaccines can cause autism of any of the other autoimmune diseases and neurological disorders that are just skyrocketing in our school systems amongst our children today. But your book proves … I mean it certainly lays out, there is science happening all around the world. When you put it together in this book and you lay out how many people, how many great institutions everywhere but in America are looking at this and saying, “This is a problem.” Especially aluminum. Tell me a little bit about what’s happening with aluminum.

JB Handley: Well, let me take a step back. There was a study in China that was published earlier this year, and all this science that says that vaccines don’t cause autism, first of all, it’s based on one vaccine and one ingredient. But it’s also only epidemiology, which means it’s numbers from a medical record and you run those numbers. Biological science is far more compelling because you learn is there a mechanism that causes something. Just this year in China, they took mice and they gave some a hep B vaccine, hepatitis B, given on the first day of life to many infants in America.

Del Bigtree: Day one old baby. A sexually transmitted disease like AIDS the baby’s not going to come in contact with until sharing heroin needles or sleeping with prostitutes. And I always say, “I don’t know how you plan on raising your kids, but my baby probably will hopefully never be involved in those types of scenarios, but certainly not for a long time. Why does my baby need to be treated like a prostitute?”

JB Handley: There you go. And in many first world countries, hepatitis B vaccine is only given if the baby’s mom has hepatitis B. A more sane approach to that disease.

Del Bigtree: Right, but not here. Everybody, everybody [crosstalk 00:12:37] America.

JB Handley: Not in the United States. So the mice, they gave some of the mice hep B and some a saline placebo, and then they looked at their brains afterwards. What they found was profound neurological damage with markers that match what people with autism have. That was scary. They could confirm without question that hep B causes neurological damage biologically. But maybe as concerning, they found a latency period to a lot of the damage. What that means is that there’s a time delay between when you get the vaccine and when that neurological damage manifests.

Del Bigtree: Right, it’s not overnight, I mean a lot of the autistic parents that I’ve interviewed will talk about literally days later, weeks later, regressing, losing the ability to walk and talk. But there’s so many people that say, “I didn’t catch the injury because it was a slow development over time.” It’s hard to prove. How do you prove?

JB Handley: What that biological study from China shows you is that a child who gets a hep B vaccine at two months, four months, and a year could get a learning disability at four and they could be related, but we would never know that. Because as you know, the safety time for which they evaluate those vaccine trials is a week to 10 days. You’re never going to catch a latency period injury in a week to 10 days.

JB Handley: I would think that that kind of biological science that’s very damning to the neurological damage that hep B vaccine can cause in babies would throw up a red flag at CDC and we’d start hearing about it. But we never do. We never do. I think the notion that the science is settled, that’s simply a marketing message. I have a whole chapter in my book dedicated to that. The quick message is that you can’t only look at MMR and thimerosal and say that this has been settled. And the second message is that the compelling science now out there shows exactly how a vaccine can trigger what we call an immune activation event in the brain of a baby that leads to autism.

Del Bigtree: You talk about multiple different studies all over the world. One of them I think is very compelling is Chris Shaw, who I think very early on is one of the guys, really started looking at aluminum.

JB Handley: Literally the first guy to do biological studies on aluminum. The first. So he is the pioneer.

Del Bigtree: He’s the pioneer.

JB Handley: Yes.

Del Bigtree: So you’re talking about in China, we’re now really looking at hepatitis B, we’re seeing these studies this year. Chris Shaw was on this early. You talk about him very specifically in the book and the studies he did. Here’s a little video that was in the documentary Bought. Meet Chris Shaw and what he discovered in his look at aluminum.

Chris Shaw: Recently we’ve been looking at aluminum which, is common in many vaccines. It’s used as an adjuvant. That means helper. With the aluminum the vaccine basically does not provide any long term protection. My research has looked at injectable aluminum and how it might impact the nervous system.

Chris Shaw: The difference between injectable aluminum versus dietary aluminum is that aluminum that you eat is excreted fairly rapidly. Injectable aluminum however is meant to stick around. And that’s precisely why it’s there in the first place. That’s what an adjuvant does. So we simply did the really simple experiment of taking the same stuff out the vaccines, the aluminum hydroxide, and injecting it into mice, into the muscles, to see what would happen if we tried to mimic the vaccine schedule.

Chris Shaw: We were quite surprised to see how rapidly the behavioral symptoms emerged. They showed not only behavioral deficits with motor function but they ultimately showed cognitive deficits as well. Once we sacrificed the animals and started looking inside their brains and spinal cords, we found massive damage to the motor neurons. So we may be creating the conditions for Parkinson’s Disease, Lou Gehrig’s Disease, Alzheimer’s Disease. Maybe not immediately, but maybe 20, 30, 40 years down the road.

Del Bigtree: I think that video really captures what … Experience in your book. You lay it out as clearly as that. All these different scientists.

JB Handley: Yeah. I feel like they should all be standing behind me right now. I’m sure that the character assassinations are imminent for me as an author. But in reality, my personal story is maybe six pages of the entire book. The rest of the book is dedicated to real science and real people, and I would argue that Dr. Shaw is one of the many true heroes of this. I’m just a parent. I’m a reporter in effect in my book. Dr. Shaw did the studies, and what’s amazing about Dr. Shaw, at the end of that clip, if you go a little farther in that clip, he talks about how when he published the groundbreaking first look at aluminum, he was met with silence from the Public Health Service. Dr. Shaw felt so strongly about his science, which is ongoing past that original study there-

Del Bigtree: Yes, it hasn’t stopped.

JB Handley: … that he wrote a letter to the CDC, the FDA, and HHS. He wrote a personal letter at the end of 2017, and I quote him in my book where he said, “I’m very concerned about your statements on your website saying that vaccines don’t cause autism because when it relates to aluminum I think it’s still very much an open question. And here’s all my citations that I encourage you to take a closer look at.”

JB Handley: I want to explain something very important about aluminum. Aluminum’s purpose in the body is to hyper stimulate the immune system. That’s its entire purpose. It’s not ionic aluminum, and this is very confusing for people. It’s nano particulate aluminum that is man made. And the reason that matters is the immune system doesn’t know what to do with the aluminum. So you generate a hyperstimulation of the immune system. And what we’re now learning is that the immune system sends macrophages into the blood, they grab the aluminum, and some portion of that ends up in the brain.

Del Bigtree: Macrophage, sort of like the garbage cans, they eat up the garbage in the body trying to get out.

JB Handley: Garbage made of the immune system. They grab it, they don’t know what to do with it either. It ends up in the brain, it triggers an immune activation event in the brain. What we know now with 100% certainty is that people with autism are suffering from swollen or inflamed brains. We know that from studies that have looked at people who have passed away for other reasons.

JB Handley: My son’s brain is in a permanent state of chronic inflammation, and the only real question is why? Well, we learned from Professor Exeley out of Keel University in England that he found in the brains of people with autism extraordinary high levels of aluminum. And not only were the levels high, they were in the macrophage portions of the brain, and what he said was, “Based on this new research, which was published in November of 2017, I would advise people to avoid, except in life or death situations, any vaccine with aluminum in it which would be most of the childhood vaccination scheduled.”

Del Bigtree: Chris actually, right …

JB Handley: So we have a serious, serious problem here, and there should be a whole group of scientists standing behind us who are all raising alarm bells. I think when parents read the book and they read the chapter on all the new science, they’re at least going to be concerned, and I wish our health service was concerned.

Del Bigtree: Beyond parents, every doctor, everyone needs to take this book … First of all, I want to say that all the proceeds from the book … And you should, you can go on Amazon right now or go to your local bookstore, is we want this book to be a success. But take it to your pediatrician, take it to your doctor, take it to the scientist, we need to get this in their hands. And if they say, “I’m not going to read this,” then they don’t care about one of the biggest epidemics and a crisis in this nation. One in 36 children now being diagnosed with autism in America. This is, it’s an epidemic of incredible proportions.

Del Bigtree: I love … This is from your book, and this is what you say, and I think you put it as clearly as I could put it, the science take where you said, “But here’s what I hope everyone will take away from this chapter. Actually, the science now exists in abundance. It’s up to the adults in the room to read it, understand it and change these devastating policies as soon as possible in order to end the autism epidemic.”

Del Bigtree: You can’t be clearer, I can’t say it any better, this book does do that. I do not believe … I think of Josh Gordon, the Inter Agency of Autism, one of the top guys, either he does or does not read this book. If he reads this book, he is going to be responsible now for making a change. You’ve given us a path to fix this.

JB Handley: I gotta talk about Josh Gordon. The head of the NIMH, National Institute of Mental Health and the head of the IACC, the Inter Agency Autism Coordinating Committee. I saw an email exchange that Josh Gordon had with a person in the autism community, and he sent a single study that he thought refuted the vaccine autism connection. It’s called the Taylor study, it’s out of Australia. It’s a meta analysis, which simply means it summarizes other studies. It’s a meta analysis of MMR and thimerosal and nothing else. If that is Josh Gordon’s understanding of this topic, we are in real trouble.

Del Bigtree: Cause he’s the head guy.

JB Handley: He’s the head guy.

Del Bigtree: He’s the guy in America.

JB Handley: Billions of dollars that he could assign to this issue. What I hope and pray is that at some point people like Chris Shaw, Chris Exeley, Romaine Girardi out of France and many others sit down at a table with CDC and FDA. You and I don’t need to be there. We’re not doctors, we’re not scientists. But the information is now out there. They simply can’t keep denying that it exists. And what’s interesting is you’ve got one in 36 with autism. That’s a real rise in prevalence. This community, our community, has an explanation for how it’s happened. They have no explanation. They only know what didn’t cause it, but they have no explanation for what did. It’s a rampant epidemic. It’s sad. I mean honestly, this is a sad day for me. It’s sad that we’re still fighting about this. It’s sad for how many children have been affected. It’s sad for how many lives have been ruined. And in many cases, for what? For what? Hepatitis B that is barely transmissible? We have to start talking honestly about these things.

Del Bigtree: The book is How To End The Autism Epidemic. I hope that everybody right now is going and getting yourself a copy. All proceeds are going to non-profit organizations. And speaking of non-profit organizations, you started Generation Rescue.

JB Handley: With my wife.

Del Bigtree: With your wife. And early on I think in that process, you teamed up with arguably one of the most dynamic people to ever enter the arena in the discussions of vaccine safety. Of course, I’m talking about your friend and partner, Jenny McCarthy. Here’s what it looked like when the two of you hit the talk circuit.

JB Handley: Uh oh.

Del Bigtree: Take a look.

Ellen Degeneres: The actress, a devoted mom, and a best selling author, please welcome Jenny McCarthy.

Speaker 6: Jenny McCarthy.

Speaker 7: JB Handley joins us live.

Larry King: JB Handley, co-founder of Generation Rescue.

Jenny McCarthy: I don’t know what happened in 1990, there was no plague that was killing children that we had to triple the amount of vaccines.

JB Handley: The U.S. is 34th in the world for under five mortality.

Travis Stork: Vaccines are really the one thing we have looked at as causing autism.

Speaker 11: Yeah, and I agree with you.

JB Handley: That is completely bogus. That is such a bogus statement. How many vaccines have they looked at in these studies? How many? What’s the answer? It’s two.

Jenny McCarthy: You ask any mother in the autism community if we’ll take the flu, the measles. Over autism. Any fricking day of the week.

Eliot Spitzer: With all sympathy and as somebody who has been a harsh critic of big pharma.

JB Handley: I don’t need any sympathy.

Eliot Spitzer: Well, okay but what I’m going to say is-

JB Handley: I don’t need your sympathy. What I need is the facts and someone to look at the details.

Eliot Spitzer: Wait, wait, JB hold on one sec.

Larry King: Are there treatments?

Jenny McCarthy: Yes, yes and yes.

JB Handley: You’re going to stand on the stage and say that vaccines and autism are unrelated, it is the most bogus tobacco science, it’s a smokescreen. Anybody who takes the time to read it would agree.

Jenny McCarthy: We do not need that many vaccines.

Del Bigtree: Well, I have been dreaming about this moment, Jenny McCarthy on the set of The High Wire. It is truly an honor.

Jenny McCarthy: Well I’m honored, you’re amazing by the way. And so are you JB, but you know that, But thank you for all you do, Del.

Del Bigtree: You know, I watched those clips, of course you were on The Doctors, a show I worked on. And I didn’t work on that specific show, by the way so I’m not to blame, although-

Jenny McCarthy: Yeah I know. I busted your chops already about it.

Del Bigtree: Yes you have. But I want to talk about that time period. You came on the scene and it was like … It exploded. I have to imagine every parent of an autistic child must have been sitting at home just saying, “Thank God, an angel has arrived, is speaking our truth, is bringing the truth to the people.” You had the visibility, you had the publicity, Oprah Winfrey, it was like … I have to imagine, if I had a child who was injured, I’d thought, “It’s it, she’s going to finally bring awareness to this.”

Del Bigtree: And then it was like you were this rising star and then this destruction of you as a person. All of a sudden the story changes, and we’re talking about how as a Playboy bunny, and these derogatory remarks towards you, and you have no business talking about this. What happened? What was that transition moment, and what was that like?

Jenny McCarthy: It was just as shocking for me, because the first thing I did was Oprah, and it was pretty fantastic. Oprah said to me, which I don’t think I told many people, but just before we went live she said, “I just wanted you to know something. We’ve been trying to do this show for 10 years. We’ve been getting letters. And I said we have to wait until somebody tells a story. And you finally told the story. And we have to do this show live, because otherwise I’ll be prevented from doing it.” And then she counted us down, and I was so scared.

Jenny McCarthy: Then I went on the press tour and I couldn’t believe the overwhelming amount of parents that came up to me and were so supportive, and like you said, thank god, thank you for speaking up. And everything was going kind of better than I ever could have imagined, getting the word out there.

Jenny McCarthy: Then all of the sudden at Generation Rescue, my office there, we had a visitor come. And it’s so weird, it’s almost like out of a spooky movie. Car pulled up, dark car, man asks to talk to me and sat down. He said, “Listen, I work for a PR company, and I’m usually behind the scenes, but I work for some pretty big guys. And I was asked to sit down with the American Academy of Pediatrics and some other companies, and they wanted to hire me to do a campaign against you. And I myself have a child with autism, and I don’t agree with them. I agree with you. So I’m coming here to tell you I turned them down, but they’re going to go forward with it.”

Jenny McCarthy: And I said, “Well what kind of campaign?” And he said, “They’re going to turn the tides and call you an anti-vaccine person.” And I kind of giggled at the time. I go, “Have they seen the media I’ve done?” Every single show I start off with I’m not anti-vaccine. I literally put that out there first so no one can come to me and say I’m trying to bring measles back.

Jenny McCarthy: I said to the man, I’m like, “Well thank you for warning me. I’m not worried, I’ve clearly stated it in every show.” And they did an amazing job getting the media to call me that. That was my title. It was nude model, anti-vaccine whatever you want to call her, put in some more words. They managed to get enough people online and reporters, and that’s how that label began. So it was an intentional move on their part to change the narrative.

Del Bigtree: Wow. What was that like? I mean, did it immediately effect your work? I mean it seems like, if I reflect, your career sort of disappeared from us for awhile. I mean, it seemed to effectively sideline you. Is that just that you took time on your own or did it affect how you got work?

Jenny McCarthy: You know, ironically when I sat down with Oprah that first episode, she signed me for a five year deal, contract. So initially I was supposed to … Oprah was going to pass the baton. I was literally at Harpo Productions being trained by Harpo to then work for her and take over when she left ABC. It just so happened to be that she wanted me then to go to OWN, and I didn’t want to go to OWN, so I moved on. In a holding deal you can’t really do much else, but these other little side jobs. All those little side jobs that would keep me out there, I was fired from due to this. Any type of promotions, charity events, any kind of products. I would say there’s about 12 jobs that I was fired from over the years. And that’s really scary. At the time I was a single mom, I didn’t know where the next paycheck was going to come at some point. People know how expensive autism is. And it was terrifying. And did it cause me to take a step back and be quiet a little bit? You’re damn right.

Del Bigtree: Well, it was your livelihood.

Jenny McCarthy: It was my livelihood.

Del Bigtree: I mean, you’re by yourself, you’re with your child.

Jenny McCarthy: It didn’t mean I was going to stop fighting, I turned and just focused more on how to heal the kids. I really focused on that these kids can get better. Evan got better, your kid can get better. Whether that’s recovered or just can sleep through the night or just not in pain, that was the goal. So I focused my direction that [crosstalk 00:28:41]

Del Bigtree: How is Evan now?

Jenny McCarthy: Evan is doing amazing. He’s 16 years old, incredibly talkative, doing great. He-

Del Bigtree: He got back into school, I mean was he able to go to school?

Jenny McCarthy: Oh yeah.

Del Bigtree: And get an education?

Jenny McCarthy: Yeah. Much after I found Generation Rescue, I followed what the parents and the scientists and the doctors that said, implemented that immediately. Within a year and a half, he was no longer considered autism, but autism is, you check the boxes. So he didn’t qualify for services anymore, and he’s doing great. Does he have still quirks? Of course. He still has epilepsy and there’s things we need to work on, but he doesn’t fall under that category anymore. When word got on about that, it was another kind of shit storm if you will.

Del Bigtree: I remember seeing things, like all of a sudden I was reading that Jenny McCarthy claims she healed her son but it was really just misdiagnosis. I think … You talk about the science in your book, How To End The Autism Epidemic, What’s do interesting is you get into healing. You get into, as you’re talking about, DAN Doctors and scientists and doctors that were out there, Generation Rescue got very involved with trying to help people get to healing. I think you even sponsor people sometimes in order-

Jenny McCarthy: Absolutely. A grant program.

Del Bigtree: A grant program so that they can get funding for that. Why … It blows my mind that the medical establishment would prefer to say, “Oh, we made a mistake and misdiagnosed your child,” take it on, like “We’re idiots. Well, we’ll take the idiot card before we’ll admit that you healed your child.” Why is that the outlook?

JB Handley: Well, let’s ask Jenny the question. You got the American Academy of Pediatrics, you’ve got Autism Speaks, and you have CDC, and you made a public claim that your son had recovered from autism. So how many people came to view Evan’s records and to verify that what you were saying was true?

Jenny McCarthy: None.

JB Handley: Okay. So there’s your answer for the level of curiosity that’s out there.

Del Bigtree: Wow, zero.

Jenny McCarthy: Zero.

Del Bigtree: I mean, you think about this. You have an epidemic, it’s climbing, you have someone that went public, you got attacked for saying that your child got autism from his vaccines, and then you come around and say, “My child is recovering, getting better, I am helping other people do the same …”

Jenny McCarthy: And mind you, there’s thousands that came before me. I was following what they did, so I was just the first one to come public. But because it’s an injury, they don’t wanna look at it as a recovery.

Del Bigtree: And not one call. Not one-

Jenny McCarthy: Not a one.

Del Bigtree: … let’s come and look at your records and see what happened.

Jenny McCarthy: Not one. In fact, I remember when it was a big hoo ha ha in the media, where it was all over the place. And I wasn’t even gonna answer it, because I was like it’s such bull that they’re saying my son was never diagnosed. It got so out of control I was forced to. So I went to and got Evan’s diagnosis from California, the state regional center, and then I got … UCLA also diagnosed him, and he went through the whole UCLA program. So I have two incredible diagnosis-

Del Bigtree: Institutions that are top level institutions.

Jenny McCarthy: And they still-

Del Bigtree: And we’re gonna say they’re idiots, don’t know what they’re doing, because that’s the preferable stance of the medical establishment.

JB Handley: I wanna point out, this is a playbook. It’s a disturbing playbook, but it’s a playbook. The assassination of Jenny’s character and her experience was done by human beings at PR firms hired by pharma, and that’s deeply disturbing. When Rachel Carson blew the whistle on DDT destroying ecosystems, the chemical industry came after her and tried to destroy her character. Time and again we see, whether it’s Dr. Wakefield or anybody else, what’s deeply disturbing is these PR firms are actually given the charge, as this man told you in the dark limousine, to do exactly this.

JB Handley: The question that I ask myself is how do we get past that? Because it’s a very effective rifle shot tactic. And the way we get past that is that Jenny and I need the scientists and the doctors to stand up.

Jenny McCarthy: That’s right.

JB Handley: Okay? And they can’t stand up singularly because they will be shot. But if they stand up as a group and they tell the truth, and they put out white papers, and they put out statements, and they all lock arms, and they say, “We’re gonna get through the brigade,” then they might actually come out the other side with some truth. And we have to recognize how nasty our adversary really is. It’s kind of funny. Everybody in America hates big pharma. For good reason. We just learned that statins aren’t working. We know about Vioxx, we know about opioids. And yet somehow the vaccine division is unicorns and rainbows. And it’s not.

Del Bigtree: And more and more … And the corruption of medical journals, that they’re all being bought out-

JB Handley: It’s all been co-opted.

Del Bigtree: … people being fired. What was it, Sloane Kettering taking money to publish documents. I mean, every day … And this is what I do on The High Wire. Every day, every week, I have so much information to share on new lawsuits, new revelations, that the scientific community, oh my god, is lying to us. Surprise, surprise.

JB Handley: I would make the point that we have 54% of children with a chronic illness. We have 15-20% of children in special education in schools. These are unmitigated disasters that are gonna bring our country down. This is a massive change in 30 years. And we are offering up a pretty plausible explanation for the primary, not singular, primary trigger of all those epidemics. The auto immunity side of the chronic disease equation, I would argue that that’s scientific fact. That we know that vaccines are triggering auto immunity. There’s books on vaccines triggering auto immunity.

Del Bigtree: If your kid has diabetes, if your kid-

JB Handley: Asthma.

Del Bigtree: … has asthma, if your kid has an anaphylactic food allergy, if your kid has eczema, if your kid has … I think going into ADD, ADHD, good chance you have a vaccine injured child. And the science is there.

Jenny McCarthy: Yes.

JB Handley: That’s my point. The science is there. And again, scientists need to stand up and lock arms. Del, Jenny, and JB are not gonna win this fight. We’re all lay people, relatively speaking. We’re all reporters in a way. Jenny reported on her own experience. I reported a little bit on my own experience and a lot on what these scientists and doctors are saying. But anytime you see somebody try to frame this debate as science, or parents versus science, it’s no longer true. It’s not true at all. There’s so many doctors and so many scientists. And Jenny and I, and I’m sure you too Del, we get so many whispers behind the scenes from people in positions of high power in public health, whatever, to tell us to keep going. And part of me says thanks for the affirmation, but part of me says why don’t you stand up and do something about it? And the reason they don’t is they’re scared for their careers.

Jenny McCarthy: I’ve had people in the CDC, I’ve been in a hotel, in a lobby, and they pull me aside and say, “I work for the CDC and I just wanna let you know there’s so many of us that believe in what you’re saying.” And I said, “Then why aren’t you saying anything?” And they’re like, “Oh, well we can’t.” I hear that time and time again. And it’s so frustrating.

Del Bigtree: So frustrating. It is so frustrating. Jenny, you’ve done something that … I work in Hollywood. When your career gets tanked, when you get attacked the way you do, most people never come back. You have managed to not only establish a career in one of the hardest industries in the world, you’ve done it twice. You’re back. I’m watching the ball drop in New York on New Year’s, there you are. Your own reality show, and Donnie, and all these great things. You’re back in our lives. Why are you here now? This is such a risk for you.

Jenny McCarthy: You know, there’s been so many, and this community will tell you, over the course of 10 years we’ve had these roller coaster moments of, okay you guys, it’s gonna happen, this is gonna happen, we’re so excited, this is it. And then nothing happens. And we’re like, what the hell, it just … There’s been so many of those moments. But I realized when JB wrote his book and I read it for the … And he allowed me to be one of the first people to read it, I finished it, I jumped on my bed, screaming, Donnie came running into the room, he’s like, “What’s wrong?” I’m like, “You don’t understand.”

Jenny McCarthy: This book, this book has the science behind it. This book has jaw dropping, bombshell information. Deposition. It doesn’t get any better than what is in JB’s book right now, that to me I go this is when I come out and promote and help as much as I possibly can. I’m still out there, I still help kids’ parents and families, I do mentoring calls constantly. But to get out in the public and do some-

Del Bigtree: JB’s-

Jenny McCarthy: PR.

Del Bigtree: It’s that good. It really is.

Jenny McCarthy: It’s that good.

Del Bigtree: It’s we now have something to champion that literally could end autism [crosstalk 00:36:44]

JB Handley: And I would just clarify, the information is that good. Because that’s what this is about. It’s not artful prose, it’s not gonna win a Pulitzer Prize. You have depositions from two of the titans of the mainstream autism community conceding that vaccines cause autism in a vulnerable subset of children. You have published biological science that most people don’t appreciate exists. And when you take those two things and you put them together with all the parental stories that are out there, what’s great about the book, if you will, is the information behind it that is sitting there hiding in plain sight that people need to see.

Del Bigtree: Well-

Jenny McCarthy: I wish everyone would go and get a book and walk into their pediatrician’s office and put it down and say, “Read this.” And if every single person watching this did it, the pediatricians would be overwhelmed. At least a portion of them would read the book.

Del Bigtree: Certainly, you hope that people that went to med school have enough curiosity to read a book that is called How To End The Autism Epidemic, just page through, get right to the science if you have to. I think you do yourself a little … I mean, I think you’re talking yourself down because not only did you have the science, not only do you have the legal and these depositions of people you cannot believe but these scientists are saying in depositions, sworn depositions, but the way you weave it together, the light … You have your son in there. I was in tears at the end. I literally had tears. So it’s a little bit more than a scientific read. It’s very powerful.

JB Handley: And you know, I would address the parents for a moment. Autism is heartbreaking. It really is. And my life and the life of my wife have been altered by this, but nowhere near what’s happened to the life of my son. It’s just not okay.

Del Bigtree: It’s not okay.

JB Handley: It’s not okay, the number of children who are debilitated because of this is not okay, and anybody who thinks that autism is this mild condition of genius or anything, that’s simply untrue. The majority of children with autism have a debilitating condition that is lifelong, it’s neurological, it’s physical, and we are putting children into group homes for life over a bloated vaccine program. And I think Del, I wanna make sure I make this point because it’s so important. There are two of the leading titans of the mainstream autism world. I view them to be heroes. Dr. Zimmerman and Dr. Kelly. They have told the truth. They have told the truth about what they’ve seen in their own clinic, Kennedy Krieger, the leading clinic in the world about autism, and the one thing that they say that they say so emphatically, despite a very pro vaccine stance on both of them, is that we have to screen the vulnerable children before the first vaccine.

JB Handley: My son hit every red flag and never should have received a vaccine. He should have been pulled out of the vaccination pool. And I know that Dr. Zimmerman and Kelly agree with me on that point because they make it so clear in their deposition. And more importantly, we have the ability to do that right now. The fact that we are not-

Del Bigtree: We know how to do it.

JB Handley: … screening these children-

Jenny McCarthy: We do.

Del Bigtree: Yeah.

JB Handley: … who are very vulnerable, and we have doctors at one of the leading institutions in the country who they know that, and they claim their colleagues know that and will not do anything about it, it’s reprehensible. It’s not okay.

Del Bigtree: I wanna get into that part of the book. We’ve talked about healing, we’ve talked about the science. There’s the legal side of it. And if you were watching the news 10 years ago, then you saw a very different approach towards this discussion than you see now. No one is getting on the news, no one will cover Jenny. We’ll get into that in a little bit. But this is what the news looked like just about 10 years ago. This is what we were seeing.

Speaker 12: We have breaking news over the debate over autism and vaccines.

Speaker 13: $1.5 million to the family of a little girl who developed autism like symptoms after receiving five vaccinations in one day.

Speaker 12: This is a bombshell.

Speaker 14: Some doctors say the vaccinations may have aggravated a pre-existing disease in Hannah’s brain.

Speaker 15: I think her case is echoed among thousands of other similar cases.

Sarah Bridges: Went in for the well baby checkup. That night it woke us with a high pitched scream, unconscious when we found him, 106 fever.

Speaker 17: Many, many cases have been dismissed, by the way, by parents who have sued the pharmaceutical industry.

Theresa Cedillo: It’s very difficult, very stressful. It’ shard to see her suffer.

Sarah Bridges: The idea that there’s no link between vaccines and autism is a complete red herring.

Speaker 19: If there’s no cause and effect, why the multi million dollar war.

Speaker 20: Vaccine injury compensation program is an absolute invitation for abuse of power.

Speaker 21: This in some ways smacks of a cover up.

Del Bigtree: Rolf Hazlehurst, you are joining us because you’re in JB’s book, and your son Yates Hazlehurst was a vaccine injured child, as many of them. Thousands, in fact. Why are we talking about Yates, why is JB bringing up Yates’s case in this incredible book, How To End The Autism Epidemic?

Rolf Hazlehurst: Well, Yates’s case was the second test case in the omnibus autism proceeding under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Act. Under the vaccine program, he in essence represented the 5,000 children in the program, and basically every kid in the country. He is currently, as far as I know, the only child that survived the United States Supreme Court case of Bruesewitz v. Wyath that took away the legal rights of every vaccine injured child to even question vaccine safety in a court of law. And he’s the only vaccine injured autistic child to make it to a court of law with a jury trial court ever.

Del Bigtree: Just to bring people up to speed, essentially there was the 1986 Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, which took the rights of people away to sue the manufacturers of vaccines. Took all liability away. Essentially the vaccine makers blackmailed Ronald Reagan, saying we’re gonna stop making all vaccines because we have so many legal cases against us, it’s becoming … It’s not profitable. We can’t make money off of vaccines. Think about that. A product that is having so many lawsuits that we can’t make a profit. That’s where vaccines were at.

Del Bigtree: Instead, what they did was they gave, our congress and Ronald Reagan, they were reticent to do so, but took away liability and created what we now refer to as vaccine court. This is a court without a jury, it has none of the trappings we know a court should have. There’s no discovery, you’re fighting the government of the United States and the Department of Justice attorneys, and you have to prove causation. And when you have no discovery, you can’t even look at the trials or what the vaccine makers discovered. By the way, every time you see one of these lawsuits like Monsanto that just paid out nearly $300 million because glyphosate looks like it causes Non Hodgkins Lymphoma. They proved that in court. We get internal documents. We get emails we can refer to.

Del Bigtree: In the case of Vioxx, which was a drug that killed over 65,000 people, Merck paid out $3 billion in that settlement, and in that case we got internal emails where we saw Merck saying to their employees don’t worry about these doctors that are questioning the heart attacks of Vioxx, which they knew it happened. They knew their own internal trials had shown it could cause heart attacks, they hid that from the FDA, and in their internal emails they said don’t worry about those doctors that are questioning Vioxx, we will hunt them down and destroy them where they work.

Del Bigtree: We have those emails because we have discovery. In the court system, vaccine court, you’re never allowed to see emails like that, you’re never allowed to request this information, you’re never allowed to get to the behind the scenes of how this vaccine was determined to be safe. So I wanna make that clear.

Del Bigtree: What you’re saying, Rolf, is you have gone all the way through this vaccine court, and you’re one of the few cases that’s now moved beyond that and actually back into a civil court system, which almost no one’s ever achieved before. What made your case different and how are you there?

Rolf Hazlehurst: The case is different in that it’s a medical malpractice case, also based upon lack of informed consent. But one of the other unique things about Yates’s case, and clarify one of the things that you said, was that currently under the law you cannot sue the pharmaceutical companies for basically a defective and unreasonably dangerous product. That was not the law when the Vaccine Act was passed in 1986. And how we got to that point, I contend, was perpetration of fraud by the United States Department of Justice will representing the United States Department of Health and Human Services in the omnibus autism proceeding. And can I explain?

Del Bigtree: Sure.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Okay. When I first heard that vaccines could cause autism, I didn’t believe it. I thought if that were true, then there’d be massive class action lawsuits. That’s when I first learned about the Vaccine Act of 1986. What the Vaccine Act says is if you’re injured by a vaccine, you cannot go to state or federal court until you go through all these procedural hurdles. Now there were class action lawsuits alleging that thimerosal or mercury in vaccines caused autism. Then a federal court ruled that no, these have to go through the omnibus proceeding.

Rolf Hazlehurst: That’s what led to a flood of cases in the omnibus autism proceeding. There were about 5,500 cases, and in order

Del Bigtree: Just to clarify, the government says, “Okay, we’re gonna take liability away from the manufacturers. Don’t worry about it, we got this.” And then all of a sudden all of these things start lining up, and you’re trying to figure it out. In fact, let me try and explain this. Bring this in here.

Del Bigtree: I’m gonna make an attempt, because we talk about this all the time. Move your cups. Here we go. Drop this right in here. Okay. This is essentially what Rolf was talking about, and we’ve tried to explain this so many times I’m gonna give it an attempt. We had 5,000 cases line up of autism, because they’d all seen their kids descend into autism after a vaccine. Instead of the United States of America giving each one of these cases their day in court, they decided, you know what, let’s pick six. Let’s take six cases, and let this determine the fate of the 5,000. Right? Is this correct?

Rolf Hazlehurst: Correct, yes.

Del Bigtree: Now, when you decided to do this, you had these six cases, and Hazel, yours was one of them, right?

Rolf Hazlehurst: The second, yes.

Del Bigtree: The second case in line. I just wanna lay this out, and then you can correct me if I’m wrong. In the end, one of these cases was Hannah Poling. You know what, because I even get into this. Your lawyer, Robert Kennedy, Jr., stopped by just before we got to have the show here. He was on his way to the airport. And he could not come in and be with us right now. He’s on an airplane as we speak. But I actually think he gets into discussing this. He’s your lawyer working with you on this case. Let’s go ahead and see what he had to say about this, and we’ll pick up from there. And then that’ll make this make more sense. This is Robert Kennedy, Jr., just a few moments before we started the show.

Speaker 23: We have speed and control.

Speaker 23: Five, four, three.

Del Bigtree: Bobby, I wanna thank you for coming in. I know you’re flying out in just a few moments, involved in so many cases around the country. But right now, as we speak, maybe this very moment, there’s a letter and an affidavit being delivered from your non profit, Children’s Health Defense, to the Office of Inspector General, the Department of Justice, to Congressman Bob Goodlatte, who’s the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, and also Senator Chuck Grassley, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. What is in this letter and affidavit?

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: The letter we’re writing as you said, the HHS Office of Inspector General and the House and Senate Judiciary Committee is asking for an investigation of fraud by two Justice Department attorneys who were defending HHS during the autism omnibus proceeding back in 2007. As you know, the historical context is that essentially 5,000 autism cases got dropped onto the vaccine court, got transferred to the vaccine court in around 2005. And the vaccine court was frightened. The HHS was terrified of this, because the value of those cases, if any of them had found to be … If in any of those cases the autism was found to have been caused by vaccine, the total liability could have exceeded, easily exceeded $100 million for-

Del Bigtree: For the five, for the 5,000 cases.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: For the 5,000 cases. Oh, the way that they decided to handle this is really, it’s a reflection, or it was in the same way that they handle multi district litigation cases in civil court, which they chose six bellwether cases, and those cases were gonna be tried. If in any of those cases, it was found general causation, specific causation was found. In other words, general causation, if the court found that indeed vaccines can cause autism-

Del Bigtree: Just simply can. The idea that they can.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Yeah. If they found out, it would have opened the floodgates. So the Department of Justice, department lawyers who were representing HHS were under tremendous pressure to make sure that none of those cases got to vaccine court.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: So they committed a series of acts of fraud. And one of the most consequential was that they lied to the court about the testimony of their key expert witness, whose name was Dr. Andrew Zimmerman. Dr. Zimmerman, who was the government’s witness in those cases, was the leading neurologist, pediatric neurologist in the country. He was the chief of the Kennedy Krieger Center at NIH and many … He had treated many of the cases that were now in autism court. And his opinion was that vaccines were not causing autism.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: In the first of those six cases, which was the Cedillo case, he gave written testimony to the two Justice Department attorneys saying that vaccines don’t cause autism, essentially. Then he sat through a second case, and while he was sitting through the second case, he heard the testimony – and this happened on June 15, or March … Yeah, June 15th in 2005. He heard testimony by the petitioner’s witness, Dr. Marcel Kinsbourne, and his thinking about the science, Zimmerman’s thinking about the science evolved.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: After hearing that testimony, he went to the two Justice Department attorneys, Vince Matanoski and Lynn Ricciardella, and he said to them, “You know, the testimony I’m giving in the Cedillo case needs to be restricted to the Cedillo case, because I no longer believe that vaccines can’t cause autism. I believe that in certain subsets of children, children with pre-existing mitochondrial disorders, they are vulnerable when they experience a vaccine induced fever to having it trigger autism in those children.”

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: That statement by Zimmerman panicked the Justice Department attorneys.

Del Bigtree: It’s a total about face. He just ruled in the specific case of Cedillo, vaccines don’t cause autism, and now he’s going to the same Department of Justice that uses him as a witness and says-

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: In certain subsets-

Del Bigtree: … in certain, okay.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: … it can.

Del Bigtree: Okay.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: But we don’t know how large that subset is. Nobody knows how many kids might have these pre-existing mitochondrial disorders. We now know in retrospect, about 40% of the kids who have autism have these pre-existing mitochondrial disorders. So he was correct. But their panic – this was Friday, June 15th – that weekend on Sunday, a junior attorney calls up and essentially tells them he’s fired. He was due to testify at the Yates Hazlehurst hearing on Monday, on June 18th, and he’s told, “We don’t need you anymore.” And then the Justice Department in all the other cases uses his testimony, but there’s no chance for cross examination, and they don’t tell the judge that he’s changed his mind.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Those six cases were all excluded on the basis of Zimmerman’s testimony, where the Justice Department attorneys lied to the court, they specifically said this is how he feels today, and all of those cases lost in vaccine court. Now, there was one case that they couldn’t win. And that was the Hannah Poling case. It was an eight year old girl. Hannah Poling’s father was a neurologist also at Johns Hopkins University. That’s where the Kennedy Krieger Institute is, at Johns Hopkins. He knew Zimmerman, and Zimmerman treated his daughter. And they saw this was a perfectly healthy girl who exceeded all milestones on speech, language, social interactions. She was given the vaccine, the MMR vaccine, and a series of thimerosal vaccines, and within three months she regressed, she lost her language, lost her social interaction. And all this took place within the view of the greatest neurologist in the country. They all saw it happening.

Del Bigtree: So same hospital. John Poling is in the same hospital with Zimmerman.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: And they knew each other.

Del Bigtree: They all know each other, Zimmerman’s watching this girl before his eyes descend into autism.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: So he says to Poling, “I’ll be your witness in this case. This happened because of the vaccines.” Now the Justice Department lawyers are in terror. Because if he testifies in the Poling case, Poling is gonna win. And then the floodgates open and the whole system breaks down. And if the vaccine court breaks down, if the trust fund is dissolved or if it’s depleted, the immunity for vaccine companies is also gonna be gone. So they can’t allow this to happen.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Secretly, they go to the Polings, and they secretly say, “Listen, we’re gonna seal this case. We’re gonna give you $20 million. We’re gonna give you a $20 million lifetime settlement.” In other words, a possibility of getting $20 million over the life of Hannah. But – which is a very generous settlement in vaccine court, it’s the largest settlement in the history of vaccine court.

Del Bigtree: $20 million, right.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: And it was an offer the Polings couldn’t say no to. The condition that the two Justice Department attorneys conditioned the settlement on was that it had to be sealed, and then there’d be no discussion about it.

Del Bigtree: You know, it’s interesting, Bobby, we have … And right before they sealed that, John Poling was actually out in public speaking about the settlement on this case. In fact, we have Sanjay Gupta on CNN interviewing John Poling about this very case of Hannah Poling. Take a look at this.

Sanjay Gupta: I’m here with Dr. John Poling. He is, first of all he’s a neurologist, he’s also the father of Hannah Poling … Her case of autism diagnosis was conceded by the federal government as having been contributed to by vaccines.

Sanjay Gupta: We’ve talked to a lot of experts about this. They say, “Look, vaccines in no way cause autism.” You’re a neurologist, you’re also the father of Hannah. What do you say?

John Poling: The government, actually the Department of Health and Human Services, conceded that my daughter’s medical problems, which are autism, encephalopathy seizures, were brought on by vaccination.

Sanjay Gupta: The experts that I’ve talked to, including the director of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding, says that was a rare case.

John Poling: The media outlets have put out a statement that says rare underlying genetic mitochondrial disease. Now that’s five words. Four of those words are not accurate.

Sanjay Gupta: There’s so many good things about vaccines. They prevent life threatening illnesses that we’ve heard about. But in your daughter’s case, it turned out to be a problem.

John Poling: Until I saw a normal 18 month old toddler descend into autism, I wouldn’t have believed it was possible.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: That took place after they sealed it. What happened was, they sealed it and then it leaked out.

Del Bigtree: Oh, okay.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: But a lot of the, what happened in the hearing has still not been released to the public. And the Polings, to their credit, immediately petitioned the vaccine court to unseal all the records, because they wanted the other petitioners to know what had happened. They didn’t want … They wanted the other petitioners to also get compensated. Vaccine court refused to … They said, “You go back and negotiate with the Justice Department,” and nothing ever happened. So it remained a secret during a critical period when all of those cases were headed to the Court of Appeals.

Del Bigtree: For instance Hazlehurst, right? Is Hazlehurst in there, could have used this information?

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Hazlehurst was one of those. In Hazlehurst’s case, Rolf Hazlehurst’s case also, Yates Hazlehurst, the boy who was injured, also had the same underlying mitochondria disorder as Hannah Poling had. So he would have won his case. But because of the fraud by the Justice Department, his case and 5,400 other cases lost their right … Americans lost their Seventh Amendment right to jury trials. They never got in front of a jury, they never got in front of a court. The system that was a social safety net that was set up to catch these kids who are injured by vaccines was … They drilled a hole in it. And all of these cases, 5,400 kids whose-

Del Bigtree: And ever case since.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: … children were a national sacrifice, were never compensated. And they’ve had to make due on their own without any compensation after suffering this injury.

Del Bigtree: So the state’s witnesses, I understand, the scientist in the Cedillo case says vaccines don’t cause autism. And then he starts going through this shift. He’s hearing testimony, he sees the Poling case right before his eyes. John Poling, a colleague of his, daughter regressing after autism. He tells Department of Justice, “I have changed my mind. In certain moments, with a mitochondrial disfunction, it can lead to vaccine induced encephalopathy autism.” And makes that clear. Department of Justice then says, “We’re never using you as a witness again,” but in cases after that, including Rolf Hazlehurst, they quote Zimmerman, saying a lot of talk has been about this Dr. Zimmerman. He actually made this quote. And they go back to the Cedillo quote prior to his change of heart and his change of thought on the science.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Right. And you have to understand this, Del. You can never do that in a court of law.

Del Bigtree: That’s what I was gonna ask you.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: You can never take a witness’s testimony from a previous case and read it to a jury or to a judge, to a fact finder, and then have it … It would be excluded. It’s hearsay. If the guy’s not there to say it himself and to be cross examined on his opinion, you can’t do it. Oh, here they took this opinion, this very, very important consequential opinion, and they read it to the fact finder. They told the fact finder, they told the special master, he still feels this way. They lied. And then they lied to appellate court and told the appellate court the same thing.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: One of the interesting additional twists of this story is that in order to make a settlement in vaccine court, the Justice Department attorneys have to sign something called a 4C statement. And the 4C statement has to tell why they’re making that settlement. So in the 4C statement that Ricciardella and Matanoski wrote and signed under oath, they say Hannah Poling got her injuries, her autism, from vaccines. They come right out and say it. And they quote Dr. Zimmerman eight times in that report. So they knew that vaccines can cause autism. And then they went in front of the special master and said no, there’s no science that says that and nobody agrees with … And Zimmerman has said, Zimmerman, who’s the world authority, says it can never happen.

Del Bigtree: Now these lawyers … Okay.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: And they told the same thing to the US Court of Appeals, and that resulted in the exclusion of 5,400 kids from getting their rights, but also a million kids since then have been diagnosed with autism, who many of them may never have been if … May never have gotten that illness, that injury, if Matanoski and Ricciardella had told the truth.

Del Bigtree: So these two Department of Justice lawyers was at the heart of-

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Who received promotions.

Del Bigtree: Wow.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: And now run the vaccine division of the Justice Department, which represents all these cases in vaccine court. So he was rewarded for his fraud. And this has all come out just recently, and it’s in JB Handley’s book. Wonderful, wonderful book. And it’s important for Americans to understand.

Del Bigtree: And you submitted, now you have an affidavit signed by Zimmerman, as I understand it, attesting to the fact that I have had two different points of view. One was the more modern what I said to these Department of Justice lawyers, the two you’re speaking of.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: That got me fired.

Del Bigtree: He basically says … That got me fired. I told them I had a different perspective, and they sealed that perspective, and have been using my old perspective in this court, which is illegal. You’ve now also put a letter with that. Where can we find this? People wanna read about this. Is it CHildren’s Health …

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: It’s Children’s Health Defense. And go to our website and it’s posted on the website.

Del Bigtree: In this moment, as we speak, this is being handed off, as I said, to Senator Chuck Grassley, Congressman Bob Goodlatte. If you type I can right now into your comments, as I’ve said throughout this show, we will give you the link so that you can reach out to the senator and this congressman and let them know what you think, that you want … We want a hearing on this. Is that right?

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Yeah. And also, the Office of Inspector General should hear from you.

Del Bigtree: Okay.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: We’d like to generate a lot of letters to HHS, Office of Inspector General, saying you need to take this case and you need to treat it seriously.

Del Bigtree: Bobby, it’s amazing to have someone of your stature on this case, on dealing with this issue, and I think this is a huge groundbreaking moment. I feel like the floodgates are about to open up. We’re going after one of the great frauds I think that’s ever happened in this government. Thank you for taking the time to join me.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Thank you Del.

Del Bigtree: All right. Great.

Del Bigtree: All right. Let me get back to the children’s version of this, because as you can see this is very complex, and we’ve talked about it many times. There was an omnibus proceedings. The government of the United States decided we had 5,000 cases lined up, every one of these parents watched their child regress into autism. How are we gonna deal with this? We don’t have time, we don’t know … For whatever reason, we’re not gonna give them their day in court.

Del Bigtree: As I pointed out, they chose six of the 5,000. They pulled these out of the case. Cedillo, Snyder, Hazlehurst, Poling, Dwyer, King were all gonna be looked at. And if they found any one of these cases was actually caused … The autism was caused by vaccines, then we would have to rule the same for all 5,000. Now you can already imagine that the government is setting up to protect itself. I mean, not to be a conspiracy theorist, but you’re gonna assume, you’re gonna take one of these cases goes the wrong way, it’s gonna set up for the 5,000.

Del Bigtree: So what happened? First up to bat was Cedillo. In the Cedillo case, Dr. Zimmerman, as you saw, reported this. “There is no scientific basis for a connection between measles, mumps, and rubella MMR vaccine or mercury intoxication and autism. Despite well intentioned and thoughtful hypothesis and widespread beliefs about apparent connections with autism and regression, there is no sound evidence to support a causal relationship with exposure to both or either MMR and or HG,” which is mercury.

Del Bigtree: So Zimmerman gives his testimony, he is the number one scientist for the state, and they rule against Cedillo. Next up to bat is Hannah Poling, who you also saw John Poling appeared on Sanjay Gupta’s show. Now, John Poling is a colleague of Zimmerman. Zimmerman, there are all these great neurologists, they work with autism, they work on mitochondrial issues, and right in their own hospital they watch one of their colleagues’ children descend into, regress into autism before their eyes. Suddenly they’re starting to see, wait a minute. There’s also testimony by other scientists.

Del Bigtree: Zimmerman is looking into this, and he comes to the conclusion that wait a minute, if there’s an underlying mitochondrial disorder, then there is a mechanism by which, and this is what he said. “The summary language, the vaccinations significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Is in essence the chain of causation that I explained to the DOJ attorneys.” This is him writing about it in the affidavit.

Del Bigtree: This is what he said to the Department of Justice attorneys. So what did they do? Now you have the case. Now you have Hannah Poling that is in the six, that is supposed to decide this for the 5,000. What did our government do? This is what they did. They said “Uh uh. No no no. We’re gonna settle Poling off to the side, we’re gonna pay them $20 million so that they never speak. We’ll say you can’t talk about this.” It leaked out, they still tried to talk about it. They said, “No no no. The news is never gonna cover this again.”

Del Bigtree: They took that case and moved it off and moved it out of the six. Shady. We’re talking as shady as it gets.

Del Bigtree: Now comes Rolf Hazlehurst with Yates Hazlehurst. In the Yates Hazlehurst case, also mitochondrial disfunction just like Hannah Poling, they don’t allow Zimmerman to testify now. They’ve killed him as the state’s witness, and now instead at the end of this case, they say, “Since you’re all talking about Zimmerman, let’s remind you what Zimmerman had to say about vaccines and autism.” And they go back to Cedillo. They go back to the original case that he had ruled not caused, no scientific reason, by which vaccines cause autism. His old line. And that’s what they did with the rest.

Del Bigtree: In the end, it got narrowed down to three cases. Cedillo was one of them, Hazlehurst was one, and I forget what was the third one, Rolf.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Colten Snyder.

Del Bigtree: Colten Snyder. All using old testimony by a scientist who had changed his mind. This is what’s just been submitted today by the Children’s Health Defense, Bobby Kennedy, your attorney, is now going after Department of Justice lawyers that know they lied. They know that they … Essentially what has happened here in the United States of America, we took all of these children and everyone behind them and said … That’s the government of the United States working for us.

Del Bigtree: Rolf, it was a little bit simplified. But is that essentially what we’re talking about?

Rolf Hazlehurst: In essence. You have to make some clarifications.

Del Bigtree: Okay.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Okay.

Del Bigtree: Clarify away.

Rolf Hazlehurst: The first one, as far as the $20 million, I can’t confirm or deny that. I don’t know the exact amount.

Del Bigtree: I’ve heard that, and you’re right. I don’t know [crosstalk 01:09:31]

Rolf Hazlehurst: I don’t know the exact amount, and I don’t know the exact terms of the concession. The second … And I want make sure that I’m very clear about this. The Polings did not do anything wrong at all. I think the world owes a debt of gratitude to John Poling, a brilliant neurologist at Johns Hopkins who really did help to bring together the top minds at Johns Hopkins to determine how his child was injured and ultimately it was a vaccine injury. So I have nothing but good things to say about the Polings and their family.

Rolf Hazlehurst: One of the other things, real quick you indicated the Polings was the second case. Small detail there. Actually it was slated to be the number four test case.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Another clarification. Dr. Zimmerman and [Hey 01:10:27] changed his mind. Now what Bobby explained is what I originally believed, and so if you see something on a previous YouTube explaining that, that’s not exactly the way it happened. When I sat down to talk with Dr. Zimmerman several times, and now I have a much better understanding of what happened, actually what the government did is much more sinister.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Dr. Zimmerman wrote an expert opinion for one child, Michelle Cedillo. In that quote which you read, which is taken out of context, because if you read the before and the after of that quote, he’s clearly only talking about Michelle Cedillo. He is not talking about all children and all science.

Del Bigtree: He said specifically this case.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Specifically this case.

Del Bigtree: My point is specifically Cedillo, and he goes out of his way, that-

Rolf Hazlehurst: That’s why he talked to the Department of Justice, because he did not want his testimony to be taken out of context and used against these other children. So he, eyeball to eyeball, tells Vincent Matanoski and the other Department of Justice attorneys present, “I’m only writing about this one case. I’m not saying that vaccines cannot cause autism in some children. In fact …” And then he starts to explain to them that vaccines can and did cause autism in one of his patients. He never said Michelle …

Del Bigtree: Hannah Poling.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Hannah Poling’s name at that time. But, he did present them … For confidentiality reasons. However, he did present them with a copy of the medical paper which John Poling and Dr. Zimmerman and others wrote about Hannah Poling. So it’s clear who they’re talking about. But in essence, he’s telling them yes, vaccines can cause autism in a certain subset of children with an underlying mitochondrial disorder.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Well, as Bobby said, they panicked. Over the weekend they called him. “We’re not gonna use you as an expert.” That occurred in June of 2-

Del Bigtree: In your case. We’re not gonna use you in the Hazlehurst case.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Not use you in the remaining omnibus autism proceeding. We’ve got too many witnesses, so we don’t need you, the top neurologist in the world on autism.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Anyway, so he goes back to work, and as far as he knows that was the end of his involvement. And from talking with him, he clearly was not aware of the perpetration of fraud that the Department of Justice engaged in.

Rolf Hazlehurst: What happened next was my son’s case was the second test case. And during the course of the proceedings, both my mother and I were testifying about Yates’s medical history, and how when he was vaccinated, 12 days later he had a high fever, rash, vomiting, same symptoms as Hannah Poling. And then that’s when the regression began. And we mentioned Dr. Zimmerman’s name several times.

Rolf Hazlehurst: This is where I contend the United States Department of Justice perpetrated fraud upon the special masters in the omnibus proceeding. I’m gonna quote from Vincent Matanowski, the lead Department of Justice attorney in Hazlehurst, in Cedillo, in Poling, all the omnibus cases.

Del Bigtree: I wanna point out too, you’re an assistant district attorney general, correct?

Rolf Hazlehurst: I am.

Del Bigtree: So you’re not just a father, you actually understand-

Rolf Hazlehurst: I’m a prosecutor.

Del Bigtree: Okay.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Yeah. And I gotta throw in the clarification, I am an assistant district attorney general for the state of Tennessee, however the opinions that I express are those of my own and not the Tennessee Attorney General’s office or-

Del Bigtree: Well done.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Okay. This is a quote from the Department of Justice attorney, Vincent Matanoski, who Dr. Zimmerman has told he does not want his opinion taking out of context. He’s only referring to Michelle Cedillo, he is not referring to any other child or any other evidence. This is Vincent Matanowski, closing arguments, my son’s case.

Rolf Hazlehurst: “I did want to mention one thing about an expert who did not appear here, but his name was mentioned several times, and that was Dr. Zimmerman. Dr. Zimmerman actually has not appeared here, but he has given evidence on this issue and it appeared in the Cedillo case. I just wanted to read briefly, because his name was mentioned several times by petitioners in this matter. What his views were on these theories, and I’m going to quote from respondent’s exhibit FF in Cedillo v. Cedillo case, which is part of the record in this case as I understand it. Quote …” And he’s quoting Dr. Zimmerman. “‘There is no scientific basis for a connection between measles, mumps, and rubella, MMR vaccine, or mercury intoxication in autism. Despite well intentioned and thoughtful hypothesis and widespread beliefs and apparent connection with autism and regression. There is no sound evidence to support a causative relationship with exposure to both or either MMR and or mercury.’ We know this view.”

Rolf Hazlehurst: I’m sorry, “We know his views on this issue.”

Del Bigtree: That’s incredible.

Rolf Hazlehurst: That’s a damn lie.

Del Bigtree: Right.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Vincent Matanoski, the lead attorney for the United States Department of Justice, is willfully and intentionally misleading the special masters in the omnibus autism proceeding, and that perpetration, that lie, that deceit, will, if you give me time to explain, goes all the way up to the Supreme Court of the United States, and effects every kid in this country.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Now … And I’ll point out, that same Vincent Matanoski is the same attorney that three weeks later signed the concession agreement in Poling conceding that Hannah Poling’s autistic as a result of a vaccine injury.

Rolf Hazlehurst: The other department-

Del Bigtree: So that’s number one. The number one strike against DOJ is that. Now, number two.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Number two strike. The other Department of Justice attorney that signed the concession agreement in Poling is Lynn Ricciardella. She was sitting beside Vince Matanoski when he read that statement, and I believe she was present when Dr. Zimmerman explained this to Matanoski. We finally, two years later, we get to the United States Court of Appeals. And I didn’t think that I could win, because based upon the law, it’s almost impossible to win on an appeal, but I did it, glad I did, because of this. Lynn Ricciardella, United States Department of Justice, lies. And again, I do mean lies, perpetrates a fraud to the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. We’re talking about one step below the Supreme Court of the United States. It’s a long, long quote. I won’t read the whole thing. But the Court of Appeals judge is asking about the developing science and medicine and what’s occurring in the cells, and evolution of science and medicine.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Lynn Ricciardella states, and I quote: “Well, there’s a lot to your question, your honor. But I would say at this state we’re not even at the stage where it is medically or scientifically possible.” Again, that is a lie.

Del Bigtree: They know it.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Lynn Ricciardella and Vincent Matanoski are the two Department of Justice attorneys that signed the concession agreement in Poling conceding that Hannah Poling is autistic-

Del Bigtree: They know the Poling case. They were part of the Poling case, they wrote it and said it-

Rolf Hazlehurst: They wrote the ruling.

Del Bigtree: … and now she’s saying after the fact no such evidence exists.

Rolf Hazlehurst: No such evidence exists, and she’s-

Del Bigtree: Okay, so I wanna get back … Right.

Rolf Hazlehurst: … procedurally concealed that evidence.

Jenny McCarthy: Wow.

Del Bigtree: JB. Reading your book, and we’re lucky to have Rolf here …

JB Handley: Makes me more angry when I hear it from Rolf, because he explains it like a prosecutor does.

Jenny McCarthy: He does.

JB Handley: They flat out lied.

Del Bigtree: Right. So you have now a civil case where you have deposed Zimmerman and a couple of other scientists as I understand. And I have to say, JB, in the book the science is amazing. The anecdotal stories. But the testimony by the state’s witnesses, and these scientists, I think, it shuts the case. It is so incredible. When you came upon these depositions, what was your thought?

JB Handley: I mean, I was yelling out loud.

Jenny McCarthy: Yes.

JB Handley: “Oh my god.” It’s deeply, deeply disturbing to think of how much was known and how much was concealed, and how many children have been injured since that day. And I’ll just give you a few tidbits beyond what Rolf has already explained. I think the first thing that really shocked me is that there’s this whole question about an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which basically means that you have low cellular energy. And the theory is that if you have low cellular energy and at the wrong time you get a bunch of vaccines, the brain gets tipped into autism.

JB Handley: Well then they asked Dr. Kelly, “Well, how many kids are we talking about here? Because if this is like .1% of children with autism, okay.” No. 30 to 50% of children with autism who have this mitochondrial disorder where vaccines may – I emphasize may. We can’t prove it yet – may be the thing that caused it. Okay, so that was the first thing that was just …

Del Bigtree: That could essentially mean that 50% of all autism is being caused by vaccines. I mean, we’ve always said there’s gotta be other reasons. It’s an environment assault of some kind-

Jenny McCarthy: Pesticides.

Del Bigtree: … pesticides, all of that comes into play. But if this mitochondria issue through Hannah Poling, your son has it, and now you have scientists that are working on this all the time saying [crosstalk 01:19:55] up to 50% of these children have a mitochondrial disorder.

JB Handley: Rolf, how many years do you have to file with vaccine court after the first day of injury? Is it three?

Rolf Hazlehurst: Three years.

JB Handley: Okay. So it’s only three years, and most autism takes longer to manifest. So I was shocked reading more about Rolf’s son because it sounded so much like my son. I never filed in vaccine court, because by the time we figured this out, more than three years had already gone by. But one of the things that John Poling actually gets interviewed about and talks about quite a bit is what causes the mitochondrial disorder in the first place? Could it be the initial vaccines? It very much could. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

Del Bigtree: Could that hepatitis B vaccine they’re giving on day one cause a mitochondrial disorder-

Jenny McCarthy: That’s what I think.

Del Bigtree: … that then leads to autism or something further on?

JB Handley: Two more things that are absolutely shocking in the testimony of Kelly and Zimmerman, who I will repeat I view as heroes. Because they have integrity. They just told the truth. They told the truth. Now the question is well why didn’t they tell the truth 10 years ago? No one really asked them until Rolf asked them, okay?

Rolf Hazlehurst: That’s true.

JB Handley: I mean, they’re not gonna stand out in front of Kennedy Krieger and wave the flag and say, “Here it is, here’s what’s going on.” Zimmerman and Kelly, the next thing they say is that their colleagues all agree with them. The leading-

Del Bigtree: Wow.

JB Handley: … people in the world all agree with them. And then they get asked the question-

Del Bigtree: So we’re not a couple of crazies inside of our establishment.

JB Handley: It’s sort of like the elite scientists in this field all know this is going on.

Del Bigtree: Oh my god.

JB Handley: Yes. And Kelly has gotten to the point where he administers anti inflammatories to children before he gives them vaccines to try to prevent autism from happening.

Del Bigtree: Wow.

JB Handley: Okay. The next thing they get asked is, “Well, is the CDC a credible institution?” “Well, yes it is.” “Well, does the CDC believe that vaccines don’t cause autism?” They said, “Well, their studies are designed not to find it. So for public health that’s the right message, but that’s not the reality.” They basically say the very thing that parents have been saying for years. They do these large scale epidemiology of a very narrow thing, they look at kids who got some mercury versus kids who got more mercury, they play games with the numbers so they can effectively hide. They also verify that there’s been a whistleblower, William Thompson, who seems to take a different view.

JB Handley: They put those conclusions from CDC in context, and they say, “We sort of understand for public health reasons, but that’s not actually the reality.”

Del Bigtree: And to be clear, they are not anti vaccine themselves.

JB Handley: I would be very clear, they are ardently pro vaccine, but they feel emphatic about screening vulnerable kids before the first vaccine. That’s the area that we can agree on, me as a parent, them as scientists, and I know they would be sitting here nodding their heads that they wanna screen out the vulnerable kids ahead of time to save them from a debilitating lifelong neurological condition.

Jenny McCarthy: Can I ask something here?

Del Bigtree: Yeah, please.

Jenny McCarthy: Can I pose a question? Okay, so when Hannah Poling came out in that Sanjay Gupta interview, right after that, there was an interview with Julie Gerberding, who used to run the CDC. She graduated to Merck, as we know, as most do.

JB Handley: President of Merck’s vaccination-

Jenny McCarthy: President of Merck.

JB Handley: In case you’re wondering if there’s a turnstile between CDC and pharma.

Jenny McCarthy: Right? When they don’t piss anybody off, they get to go to Merck. So when she was head of the CDC and she was on CNN, they said to her, “So this case happened, then is it true that vaccines can trigger autism?” And she said, “Well, in this case it’s rare, but yes.” So how can any news corporation, journalist, doctor, outright do a blanket statement of vaccines don’t cause autism? They still say that when you-

Del Bigtree: You have the head of the CDC saying it’s very rare, but that’s …

Jenny McCarthy: Let’s just say even if it was rare, how do you get away with saying vaccines do not cause autism?

Del Bigtree: Right, prove it. Sanjay Gupta later, years later now, will say, “We’ve extensively looked at it, unequivocally vaccines do not cause autism,” even though he’s interviewed John Poling-

Jenny McCarthy: Thank you.

Del Bigtree: … and interviewed-

Jenny McCarthy: Julie, yeah.

Del Bigtree: … Julie Gerberding, the head of the CDC.

JB Handley: Well, and Del, I mention in my book that Mary Holland, who’s a lawyer at New York University, and a number of her colleagues, wrote a paper called Unanswered Questions, which was published in the Pace Environmental Law Review, where they went back after the Hannah Poling case and tried to figure out, are there other settled cases where the child had autism and the vaccines caused it? And it’s very hard to get that information, and they found 83 cases. And they not only found 83 cases, and they published them all, but they went and verified with the parents that the child had autism, what it had been like to go through the court, and I provide detail on this.

JB Handley: But we know that the vaccine court has actually been rewarding, if you will, families of children with autism where it was caused by the vaccines for many years. The omnibus took everything to a new level. And I wanna bring up a very important point. The vaccine court was created to preserve the vaccination program. Okay?

Del Bigtree: Save it.

JB Handley: That’s a very important point. It was created to preserve the vaccination program. So they were put in a position where the very purpose that they existed for was at risk-

Del Bigtree: Your job in this court is to make sure that people believe in vaccines.

JB Handley: That the vaccine program continues to persist. And so I’m not-

Jenny McCarthy: And let’s take care of collateral damage.

JB Handley: I’m not excusing the fraud, because Rolf already called it for what it was, but remember the purpose. It wasn’t created … It’s not an adversarial body versus vaccines, it’s an adversarial body versus claimants, versus parents. And it exhibited that to an extreme degree where given the potential risk of the entire thing toppling down, those attorneys made a decision to behave fraudulently to keep it in place. And the world would be very different today if they had done the right thing.

Del Bigtree: Jenny, you know, you’re the most visible, outspoken parent of a child that was injured by a vaccine. I know, I don’t have an injured child. In fact I listen to people like you. I do not vaccinate my children because there was just too many stories. Even working on The Doctors there was too many stories, to many people that were credible to me. There was something there. That’s just how I roll. I would never tell anyone what to do. But for you, I know reading these depositions, when you hear this, this cover up by … This is supposed to be the greatest country in the world. This is supposed to be the United States of America. We’re supposed to care about our citizens. We’re supposed to care about our children. And knowing you are out there, you’re putting your ass on the line, you are saying, “I saw this,” and know that the government was covering up the proof that would have verified what you were saying, what does it make you feel?

Jenny McCarthy: That’s why I said when I read his book I was jumping up and down screaming with joy, going, “We got them.” And then I went through an emotion of I am so mad. Literally when I was watching that I wanted to throw your other table over. It’s so infuriating. It breaks my heart. It makes me cry often. Like any other parent that goes through that shock you get so angry, and then you see all their parents hurt, and then I try to hope to prevent other parents from having to go through this. And it just keeps happening.

Del Bigtree: And we’re talking, parents, one in 36 children now. I mean, this is … Whether or not they’re all being caused by vaccines, that … And it’s a skyrocketing number.

Jenny McCarthy: I’ve never been busier.

Del Bigtree: This is not a rare event anymore.

Jenny McCarthy: No. I’ve never been busier. Generation Rescue, I usually mentor parents. Thousands and thousands upon calls constantly of my child went limp, or my child’s screaming, has 106 fever, or my child’s paralyzed after the HPV shot. We get these calls constantly, and it’s never been busier. And even Donnie’s been witnessing it, watching me. He’s like, “You are constantly on the phone helping these parents. What’s going on?”

Del Bigtree: How is Donnie with this? I mean, you’re coming out now. It’s gotta be a little nerve wracking as a spouse. Is he like, “Baby, what are you doing?”

Jenny McCarthy: He’s been … You know what he did? He took the time to do his own research. And I admire him for that. And of course, everywhere we go, I can’t go anywhere without people coming up to me. Every flight there’s sometime a line on the airplane for people to come talk to me. Pilots. I’ve been led in the cockpit to talk to pilots who are crying about their child. It’s everywhere I go, because I’ve been the face of it, I have to hear it. So you can only imagine-

Del Bigtree: It’s a hidden epidemic. I mean, it’s just gigantic epidemic, but everyone’s been sworn to secrecy and terror inside their houses.

Jenny McCarthy: Absolutely.

JB Handley: What’s crazy is they fan the flames of this falsehood that autism has always been here at the same rate, and I tackle this in my book to a great degree, but what’s really creepy when you get behind it is the fanning of those flames is often done by people connected to the vaccine industry. It shouldn’t be a big surprise. And they’re trying to put one over on the American public. Let’s just whitewash the epidemic. It’s always been this way. And it’s-

Jenny McCarthy: That’s never been truer words. And that’s what I told him I’m worried about. The more time passes, and the more the younger generation go, “Oh, this is normal.”

Del Bigtree: This is the world. Yeah.

Jenny McCarthy: Then this is the world, we’re in big trouble.

JB Handley: None of us grew up in this world.

Del Bigtree: Then half of us are autistic. It’s always been that way.

Jenny McCarthy: Uh huh. That’s terrifying.

Rolf Hazlehurst: I wanted to throw out one more legal point if I could, and that’s one of the things you stated was that the Vaccine Act said you can’t sue the pharmaceutical industry. That was not the law until 2011. The fraud that I’ve laid out here and Bobby laid out, that directly influenced the United States Supreme Court decision of Bruesewitz v. Wyeth. Up until 2010, you had to go through all these procedural hurdles, but then once you lost, now you can go to state and federal court. So when we finally lost in vaccine court, hooray, now after 25 years, vaccine injured children have access to state and federal courts.

Rolf Hazlehurst: But there’s one sentence in the Vaccine Act, and I’m paraphrasing, that says, if a vaccine is unavoidably unsafe, the pharmaceutical industry cannot be liable. Now what does that mean, if it’s unavoidably unsafe? A federal court said, “Well, that’s up to the FDA.” A state court and Supreme Court of Georgia said, “No, that’s a jury question.” So the tiebreaker was the Supreme Court of the United States. So that’s the issue before the Supreme Court is the statutory interpretation. Can you, all these children go to state and federal court? And at the very … The attorneys for the Bruesewitz were arguing the law. Clearly it says you can. There’s two pages that explain all the hoops and hurdles you gotta get over to get to state and federal court. Then there’s this one sentence that says when you get there, the case is dismissed.

Rolf Hazlehurst: Anyway, the government made the policy argument. Their entire argument was based much more on policy rather than the law. What they were saying was, Supreme Court, if you allow vaccine injured children to go to a court of law, the reality is you are allowing autistic children to go to a court of law, and this has been shown in the omnibus autism proceeding and vaccine court, but there’s no scientific basis that vaccines cause autism.

Del Bigtree: Basically to say you cannot allow this to happen because people start questioning vaccines.

JB Handley: The why carry through …

Rolf Hazlehurst: If you look at the briefs in the Supreme Court, Hazlehurst v. HHS, it is splattered all over that decision.

Del Bigtree: They used your decision.

JB Handley: [crosstalk 01:31:10]

Del Bigtree: They used your decision to beat this down.

Rolf Hazlehurst: They used the perpetration of fraud by the Department-

Del Bigtree: Unbelievable.

Jenny McCarthy: Wow.

Rolf Hazlehurst: … of Justice to influence the Supreme Court.

Del Bigtree: Look it, we’re here because of a brilliant book, JB, How To End The Autism Epidemic.

JB Handley: Well, and an amazing affidavit written by a very, very courageous doctor.

Del Bigtree: Affidavit. Jenny, you’re here stepping up. We’re all here because this is an amazing moment.

Jenny McCarthy: You too, Del.

Del Bigtree: Today, we have just … Robert Kennedy, Jr., and his non profit, Children’s Health Defense, just submitted this fraud by these DOJ attorneys, he’s pointing it out. We have Zimmerman testimony now coming forward and saying “I was misrepresented in this court system.” I believe that the floodgate truly is about to open up on this thing.

Jenny McCarthy: It’s up to us though-

Del Bigtree: It’s up to us.

Jenny McCarthy: … watching, to do things now.

Del Bigtree: Because look it, it’s clear our government lies. Our government’s cheating. They’re committing fraud. If we do not stand up right now and say enough is enough, too many children injured, we have the sickest nation of children in the industrialized world, more babies die in the first day of life, more babies die in the first year of life than every other industrialized nation. You’re more likely to die before being 18 years old in America than … 70% more likely to die here as a child than living in the 20 other richest nations. We should be the best. We should be the best. This is the greatest nation in the world. These lies must stop, the fraud must stop.

Del Bigtree: So, from each of you. What is your call to action to the population out there listening right now? JB, what do you want them to do?

JB Handley: I think that to Bobby Kennedy’s point, flooding Congress, flooding the Department of Justice, the OIG-

Jenny McCarthy: HHS also.

JB Handley: … with complaints and concerns would be great. And then the other call to action for me is that the group of doctors and scientists who know the truth about what’s been done to now two generations of children. They need to ban together so they don’t get Wakefielded, and stand up. There’s only so much we lay people can do. We’ve tried to lay all the information out. But we have an opportunity not to stand as one and say, “This is true, and we need to make corrective action.” And we all need to be adults about how sick our children are and deal with it. The coverup has gone on for way too long.

Jenny McCarthy: And there’s never been a time more than right now that we have to fight. We’ve gotta fight with everything we’ve got. I mean, we’ve got this book right now that JB put out, this deposition, the work that you’ve done, the work that you’ve done, Del. Kennedy joining on, and what he said is like, call the HHS, do what we need to do, write the letters, make the phone calls, annoy the shit out of people. Buy JB’s book, walk into every pediatrician’s office, hand it though them, force them to read it. Get out there. The time is now.

JB Handley: And the perpetration of fraud gives a person standing on the sideline curious and concern to step forward. To say now is the time to engage, whether you’re a congressperson or a senator, you now have direct evidence that it should have gone a different way, and if ’09 hadn’t happened, there might be a million less children with autism today.

Del Bigtree: Right. What do you think? What do you want people to do?

Rolf Hazlehurst: Well, three things. One JB mentioned, call House and Senate judiciary committees, and demand …

Del Bigtree: We’ve got that. Can we post that right now, to support the Kennedy Hazlehurst call to investigate. We have the number for Congress and Bob Goodlatte, chairman of House Judiciary Committee, we have Senator Chuck Grassley, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and of course call the Office of Inspector General, the Department of Justice, and demand that these two Department of Justice attorneys be brought forward, and we get to the bottom of this fraud and right this wrong. What else?

Rolf Hazlehurst: The second is, I clearly believe this is never going to end until we can get to a court of law and litigate this. Congress is not gonna do anything. We can protest in the streets forever. Until they are held accountable in a court of law, the autism epidemic is not going to end. That’s why I’d ask people to contribute to Bobby’s Children’s Health Defense.

Del Bigtree: Dot org.

Rolf Hazlehurst: I think it’s Indiegogo or something like that.

Jenny McCarthy: It’s true. It’s not praying more celebrities have their child … It’s you have to go to the court of law. We’ve gotta be able to-

Rolf Hazlehurst: U gotta have funds in the war chest if you’re gonna fight a war, and I think, my understanding, Bobby wants to seek to overturn the omnibus autism proceeding and eventually get compensation for every child, not just my child.

Del Bigtree: Yes. Let’s stop this. Jenny, you and I both know that many of our colleagues and friends, other actors out there, know. They’re not vaccinating their kids or they have an injured child. It’s time for them to step forward.

Jenny McCarthy: Absolutely.

Del Bigtree: Jenny, you’re standing here, JB has given us a book that every single pediatrician should be reading. Take it to your doctors, take it to your senators, take it to your congressmen. It is the time. The time is now. If you do not feel that energy, if you do not feel what’s happening here, then don’t look back in history and say, “My god, why do I have no control over my life? Why is my child so sick? Why are they lining me as an adult up to be force vaccinated with products I don’t want?”

Del Bigtree: This is the United States of America. We are the people of the freest nation in the world. It is upon us. We make the difference. That is what you are. You are the brave ones, and you out there. Where’s my camera? Where am I looking? There.

Del Bigtree: You are the brave ones. That’s what this show is about. Join us, stand up, now, and let’s truly bring this country back to the dream our founding fathers had of health, freedom, and liberty. This is The High Wire. We’re gonna continue to bring you the truth every chance we get.

Del Bigtree: I wanna thank all of my brilliant guests here, and we will see you next week.

Del Bigtree: Thanks for watching. And thank you for being a High Wire insider. Be sure to share this show with your friends on Facebook, YouTube, Periscope, and Instagram. Because knowledge is power. Power is freedom. And we need all we can get.

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