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Bill Gates’ Global Neo-feudalism with Vandana Shiva

The following is a transcript of this podcast.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
I’ll tell you what was happening. This computer was committing a civil disobedience. Something to do with you. I’m sure.

Vandana Shiva:
I’m sure. I’m sure. For 15 years, the Monsanto’s of the world have tried so hard. It’s a miracle some communication still happens in my life.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
First of all, let me introduce you. This is my hero, Vandana Shiva who I’ve known for many, many years, a role model for me really. She’s about 40 IQ points smarter I am. I know you study… I found out because I was reading your biography. As long as we’ve known each other, I did not know that you did your doctors thesis on quantum physics or whatever it was. It was quantum physics, right? Was that what you studied in school-

Vandana Shiva:
[crosstalk 00:01:13] Yeah. And that’s still what guides my work, the non-separation and the potential. Those are the two things that will get the mechanistic thinking out of the world. We are connected and we all have potential including civil disobedience.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
So, Vandana Shiva currently is a head of nandava, right?

Vandana Shiva:
Navdanya. Navdanya. Which means nine seeds.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
But I first ran into you when you were running the Chipko movement back in the 1980s. That’s when I first heard about you and this extraordinary leader in India who was organizing women to protect forests and trees and all of that.

Vandana Shiva:
Bobby, I wasn’t a leader. I was a student, and I was volunteering. And the leaders were the women, and they were my professors. [crosstalk 00:02:19] I always say the university… I went to University of Western Ontario for my PhD to figure out quantum theory better. But I went to the Chipko university to figure out biodiversity. And Bobby, just the other day, the mafia has taken hold of poor David Attenborough to launch portfolio management on biodiversity, like portfolios are land ownership. As if value to biodiversity was not recognized by the Chipko. I think that is the clash we are living through, the billionaires wanting to turn everything into their portfolio, and the ordinary people saying, “No, we want to protect our land.” Our farmers protesting now for six [inaudible 00:03:10] months for the land. That’s what they’re saying.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
[crosstalk 00:03:12] I apologize because I’ve seen on the international news… These huge, vast gatherings of farmers now in India are marching on the cities. And so tell us, because I know you’re right in the middle of that. But let me just introduce a little bit more about you. Vandana Shiva is a grassroots leaders on the planet today. She’s won every prize that you can win from people who care about grassroots and women’s rights about actual property and seeds, particularly and GMO’s. In forest protection… In chemical agriculture versus that kind of agriculture that Vandana fights for, and has led us all in the Wars against Monsanto and… And I’ve been hanging out with you for many, many years. I don’t even remember the first time we met. But just an extraordinary, extraordinary leader. And I want to talk to you about a Bill Gates and about his [inaudible 00:04:25] seed and it his purchase of the land and his move to create a new feudalism on this planet and get the farmers off the land and the billionaires onto it. Let’s talk first about current events and about what’s happening in India with these marches that you’re involved in.

Vandana Shiva:
So Bobby, my life was around physics and quantum physics. And of course the Chipko movement. I was from a very young age a ecological activist. But it was 1984-

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Your dad was a forester, right?

Vandana Shiva:
My father wasn’t forest conservator. I learned a lot from him. And my mother was a refugee from the partition. When India was split by a line drawn on a map. And she said, “Well, I’ve done everything. I’ve broken every glass ceiling for women, and now I’ll be a farmer.” So, she became a farmer. And my father was in the forest. And we lived between the farm and the forest. And they were wonderful people. Their life has given all the values I live, of fearlessness, of truth, of never giving up and loving nature very deeply. But my involvement agriculture begins with 1984 when there were similar protests against the Green Revolution. Now, the Green Revolution was first implemented on Punjab. And-

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
[crosstalk 00:06:11] So people know, that was a program by the Rockefellers, originally. Rockefellers-

Vandana Shiva:
Yeah, exactly. And World Bank. So, the World Bank, the USAID, the Rockefellers, they had a package working for a while on how do you get to move these huge amounts of chemicals, the fertilizers, the pesticides. After the wars, those factories should’ve just shut down. And instead, the Rockefellers who were very much involved in the IG Farben and Hitler experiments… There’s so much reports on that. The oil came from the Rockefellers. The chemical agriculture is a fossil fuel agriculture. They provided the oil, and the Germans provided the science. And the Rockefellers, also the private bankers, provided the finance. And so, after the war, it should’ve been an end to chemical warfare on this planet. And instead, they worked on saying, “How do we change agriculture to make it more adapted to chemicals?” And our plants are bred for multi-functionality. So, we have tall wheats and tall rices. And even animals are dual purpose.

Vandana Shiva:
The bullocks will pull the plow, and the cows will give you milk. So, we never do one dimensional thinking in India. And the fact that so many Indians are heading so many institutions is they’re living on the leftovers, a multi dimensional thinking to push the world into one dimensional, artificial intelligence thinking. But at that point, Barlow was picked up from DuPont defense labs to work on changing the plants. The U.S. had stolen some wheat from Japan during the war, and there was rice from Indonesia. And they changed the plant, made it dwarf in order to not what’s called lodging. I call it the civil disobedience of the plant. Plants were saying, “Don’t want you chemicals. Go away.” And they changed the plant. And this was all done by Norman Borlaug who got the Nobel Peace Prize. And 1984, farmers are being shot, farmers are being killed. And I’m seeing this was about to be… It’s supposed to be about peace. He gets a Nobel peace prize. 20,000 people have died in Punjab. The story doesn’t [inaudible 00:08:48] Same year, the Bhopal disaster.

Vandana Shiva:
So, the protests of today are a continuity of that, and they’re a continuity of protests we’ve had since 1991, which is a watershed for this neoliberal, globalization imposed by the World Bank, which first got us into debt. That’s how the shylocks of the world work. Gets you into debt, and then own the pound of flesh. And the laws of the farmers are fighting against are the pound of flesh that the World Bank had demanded ’91, except that they were pushed back and pushed back and pushed back.

Vandana Shiva:
Right now, the protests are huge. Farmers aren’t stupid. Farmers know what they’re fighting against. And they say, “We are fighting for the soul and the soil.” Government keeps talking about prices. “Oh, you’ll get more incomes.” Farmers say, “We are fighting for the soul and soil of India,” because if we aren’t there as farmers this civilization is dead. If we aren’t there as farmers, this soil is dead. They’ve witnessed how the soil has got degraded with the chemical Green Revolution. They have witnessed how the mono culture commodity farming for the Pepsi’s under the contract farming, which is one model. So, Pepsi came into India after ’84. Suicide started in the potato belts. Pepsi, for a 20 rupee package of potato, the farmer gets 0.04 paise, which is insignificant amount. When it’s chemical agriculture, GMO seeds and globalized trade by agribusiness and agro-processing industry, in average farmers get 0.5% to 4% of what the consumer pays. But the consumer pays not just the price of the junk food in the package.

Vandana Shiva:
They’re praying for the price of junk food in their health. And that’s why the work you’re doing, Bobby… On the issue of health, particularly children’s health… I see the industrial agriculture and industrial processing and the industrial mindset as invasions into our bodies. Earlier, it was happening indirectly. The cancers through the toxics. You’ve been fighting the case on the Monsanto bio cancer cases. All of that is an invasion into the body. But now, there’s a conscious denial that there’s a harmony between the soil’s health, the plant health, our health. And our gut microbiome is a rain forest of diversity. And if it doesn’t receive diversity of food and it doesn’t receive fresh food, it is like a war against our gut microbiome, which is 90% of us in terms of biodiversity. We are 10% human, 90% are the beings who keep us healthy, who make us… And the war against our bodies is at its last stages. But it’s happening at a time where awareness on health is growing so much, where awareness on bio-diversity is growing so much. And now they’re thinking, “Oh, what we did when colonialism started just changed the mindset, call them barbarians, civilize them.” They’re basically carrying on the civilizing mission narrative. And that’s why I wrote my book, Oneness Vs. the 1%. I said, Bill Gates, keep talking about innovation. All he’s doing is colonization. [crosstalk 00:12:24] And I’ve basically shown how it’s colonization.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
And that’s what I want to talk to you about. And I have made peace. And I interviewed you extensively. That’s running in The Defender this week, about Bill Gates’s new feudalism. What came out is the U.S. papers finally recognize a little bit, the tip of the iceberg, of what’s happening because they discover suddenly, that he was now the biggest owner of farmland in the United States of America. [inaudible 00:12:53] this health campaign, take over our farmland. Nobody knew he was doing it. He would buying it through shell companies, [inaudible 00:13:03] other. And what I do in this article with your help is connect what he’s doing in this country. He’s also investing in Alphabet, which is a Google company and developing robotic farm workers that will replace farmers. He’s developing artificial intelligence and stealing the knowledge as he did in India, as you know about.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
On the little farmer, he put cameras in their homes, in their fields. He put sensors everywhere, figure out of how they are using the seeds. And then he took the seed banks. There’s 15 seed banks around the world that store all of the heritage seeds of humanity, 786,000 species of seeds. They’re there for humanity, for the commons. And he has taken over that seed bank, consolidated it, and is now privatizing it and changing the genetic makeup of those seeds to make it so that they are chemically dependent so he can patent all of the life that has been developed over 20,000 years of agriculture on this planet. I want to start with telling the story about, a little bit, what happened during the Green Revolution, which was started by the Rockefeller mainly in India and Mexico.Gates moved it in the early 2000’s to Africa, Gates and the Rockefeller foundation.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
And they started doing the same thing there. And it’s the same thing he did with vaccines. There’s a human problem, which he says is hunger or disease, and I’m going to solve it with my technology, which is GMO crops, patented seed, synthetic foods, chemical agriculture, pesticides, petroleum-based fertilizer, monoculture. And he went into 13 African nations and forced them to do commodity agriculture, to accept his inputs, built the supply chain. And now there’s 131 million people starving in those nations. The starvation rate has gone up by 30%. And he is now trying to do the same thing to the rest of the world. And I know you’ve been active in Africa and fighting them there for many, many years. And that really helped alert the world about this. What are you up to? It’s not about farming. It’s not about food. It’s about taking over our land and giving us really unhealthy food?

Vandana Shiva:
Yeah, Bobby, you know better than anyone, how we are witnessing both the patterns of the old colonization of 500 years… And I think it’s very important that Black Lives Matter wakes up to the Gates empire, which is a racist empire. They might appoint at their heads or gave a few jobs, but the mindset and the structural processes is where systems get decided. While he’s using that old mindset, of course, he’s using new tools. And the new tools are basically the genetic engineering. And I started Navdanya which means nine seeds, which is diversity, when I was called at a meeting in ’87 when the old Poison Cartel [inaudible 00:16:40], “Now we own the seed, we’re not making enough money by selling chemicals. We’ve go to make it illegal for farmers to have seed. We will own seed as intellectual property, and we’ll have an international colloquial [inaudible 00:16:52] WTO intellectual trade related intellectual property to force farmers to have GMO patency.” I said, “But this is so wrong. This is an empire over life.” And I took a commitment. I’m going to save seeds. I going to work with our government on laws that say, plants, animals, seeds are not patentable. So-

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Let me interrupt you for a second because there’s a lot of people who listen to this who won’t understand why GMOs seeds are connected to chemicals. And let me explain very briefly. What happened is Monsanto bought… When DDT was banned in 1974, and it wasn’t Monsanto’s product, they bought another product called glyphosates. It was eight tank cleaner. Somebody had thrown it out in the backyard and saw it killed all the grass. And Monsanto said, “This would be a good weed killer.” It made it a week killer, market it as a weed killer. Farmers would have hundreds of farm workers wearing backpack sprayers, spraying the weeds in the cornfield before the corn got too big. Then in 1994 somebody put some of this glyphosate on the ground, and there was one weed that didn’t die.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Monsanto took the gene out of that weed that made it resistant to glyphosate and they put it in corn. And now they had corn, that if you sprayed it with glyphosate it would not die. So, now you can fire all of those farm workers and you will hire one airplane that saturates the entire landscape with the glyphosates. And the only thing that lives is that GMO corn. And that now is the biggest pesticide in the world. I think 80% of the pesticide in the world are that. And they have now bred all kinds of all of our grains. And all of our food stuffs and fruits are now being genetically engineered so that they are resistant to Roundup. You can dump this stuff all over the landscape, what we find is the way that it kills plants is it sucks all the minerals out of them and destroys the building blocks of life. So, the food that you get doesn’t have the minerals you need. You can have a full belly, but you can be dying of malnutrition. And that is one of the things that you really have articulated better than anybody.

Vandana Shiva:
You’re so right. So whether it was the Green Revolution in India where Borlaug married chemical fertilizers to dwarf varieties of plants, or Monsanto basically already glyphosate makes it Roundup. They sued every company that was doing genetic engineering so they could buy them out. They never did any work. None of these companies have done any work. They’ve just sued and sued and sued. And the genetic engineering and patents and chemicals go together. And now the same Rockefellers that started the chemical industry with IG Farben, and also started the entire irresponsible pharmaceuticals. We’ve had medicine forever. And Hippocrates said, “Let food be thy medicine.” Ayurveda says “ [foreign language 00:20:35]” that good food is the only medicine, and bad food has no medicine to cure the diseases it causes. It’s all known. 100 years of bad… What is it called? There’s a lovely word of… Snake oil. Selling snake oil. And now Big Pharma, Big Tech, Big IT, and big… They call it FinTech, financial technologies. Basically using digital speculative measures and portfolios. Turning the land into a portfolio, the biodiversity into portfolio and thinking it’s some smart economics. And sadly, poor Attenborough went and said, “Ecologists don’t know biodiversity. Economists do.” because money-making… And Aristotle had said, “Economy is the art of living.” Chrematistics is the art of money making.

Vandana Shiva:
So now in the art of moneymaking is Big Ag, Big Food, Big Tech, Big everyone, wanting to get bigger like a cancer cell. And the new Gates Ag One is this convergence… It’s one year old. Last year in January, he announced it. And as he says, time is the enemy. Well only stupid people think time is the enemy. Wise people know time is your friend that tests the best out of you. After all Mr. Gates locked us all in for one year. And time has taught us what wonderful friendships and love is about. It has taught us about enoughness and simplicity, what we can do without. They don’t realize there’s a living world out there.

Vandana Shiva:
And I feel Mr. Gates, besides having the disease of the cancer cell, not knowing when to stop growing… Healthy cells know how to stop growing. I think he’s got a disease of power, and he has a disease of fear. Why is this man so afraid of the tiniest microbe and so afraid of the tiniest small farmer protesting on the Indian streets today? I said, why is he so afraid of a plant that breeds for free. And why is he so afraid of democracy that if India says no to GMO rice, the golden rice, a fake solution to gold blindness, or the Bt eggplant, which we threw out in 2001 through our government ministry, through seven public hearings, where the government listened to the farmers, and listened to the citizens and listened to the scientists.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
And those were GMO crops that he tried to force on India and India threw them out. But he moved to Bangladesh and Pakistan with his GMO cotton. He doesn’t want anything except the GMOs.

Vandana Shiva:
But he also moved with the golden rice to Philippines, for which there’s a huge movement, no golden rice. And this comes back to the seed issue. So when the Green Revolution was started and the Rockefeller and the World Bank were taking all the seeds from farmers to force them to have the Green Revolution seeds with chemicals, these 15 seed banks were created, and all our seeds lie in this. Now Gates has taken control of this public system of seeds. And the rice seed bank in Philippines, where the work on golden rice was being done, the GMO golden rice… The reason it’s important following that is, one, all the seeds of rice are there. We’ve all 200,000 varieties of rice. And top scientists refuse to part with the seeds. They said, “This is our heritage. This is our civilization. We cannot let the World Bank get hold of it.”

Vandana Shiva:
World Bank made sure he was removed from his position as the top scientists of his time, Dr. Richharia. He taught me about seed [inaudible 00:24:26] He is my teacher. When Gates get hold of the seed bank in Philippines and then he does golden rice, he’s now preparing… And this is where we need the civil disobedience, Bobby. We all need to join hands. This year, World Food Day, Oct. 16, or before that Food Summit, which he has hijacked, let us do a civil disobedience against false feeding of bad food, whether it be lab food, like Impossible Burger, or golden rice, because he’s preparing for bio fortification to be made compulsory. And we’ve seen how he can make things compulsory.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
[crosstalk 00:25:04] Let me explain what Vandana is saying about the food summit. Most of the people who watch this show know that in 2009, Bill Gates went in front of the United Nations, pledged $10 billion to the World Health Organization. And most of it ended up coming from government, not from him. But he put in a couple of billion. And he declared a decade of vaccines. Nobody paid much attention to him, but he was the first unelected official and no diplomatic portfolio to appear before the United nations. And he made this declaration. Immediately he started putting all of these wheels spinning. He created all of these groups that fight anti-vaccination. And he started promoting vaccines all over the world. And in 2019, nine years later exactly, he created all of these quasi-governmental organizations, CEPI and PATH and GAVI that everybody thinks they’re government, but they’re just Bill Gates.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
He took over the world health organization during this decade. Even the Financial Times no decision made at the world health organization that is not run through the Gates foundation first. And in 2019, the world health organization comes out in January and says that vaccine hesitancy is one of the 10 greatest threats to global health. Did they offer any scientific study to prove that? No, they just stated it. Immediately, the world fell in order. And 150 countries, legislatures, politicians who were on the payroll of big pharma began pushing vaccine mandates and abolishing exemptions. In the United States, within three months, 100 bills in 50 states had been entered into the legislative process to mandate vaccines and to ban exemptions. Months later, Adam Schiff, who had been taking money from Gates… And the head of the intelligence committee comes forward and tells the social media CEOs, Pinterest, Facebook, Google, all of them, Instagram, YouTube, you’ve got to start censoring vaccine misinformation.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
And then you had the roll up to 2020, and 2020 in January, right on time for his decade of vaccines, we got COVID. Fauci was its partner, puts $48 billion into pushing vaccines. Gates gets on TV every day saying, until everybody gets vaccinated, we have to stay locked down. We’re going to crash the global economy. All of you do what you’re told and get your vaccine. He paid for studies to kill ivermectin, to kill hydroxychloroquine, to discredit them. we spend in our country $0 on off the shelf antivirals, researching them, vitamin D, all the things we know that that reduce fatalities for COVID. None of that was studied. Lot of it was recommended instead of all of the money, $48 billion into vaccines.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Now he’s reproducing that. He has succeeded with his Decade of Vaccines beyond anybody’s wildest dreams. And now he’s gone to part two, which he’s declared the Decade of Food. And he’s doing the same thing. It’s all chemical food, it’s synthetic food. He owns the Impossible Burgers, Beyond Beef all of these things, which are loaded with pesticides. And he’s getting the farmers off the farms, with his robots and his artificial intelligence in India and Africa, and now in the United States, and giving us unhealthy food, and is contributing to the chronic illnesses that are going to make us addicted to his medications. You know the rest of that story, Vandana. And you tell it better than anybody.

Vandana Shiva:
I think what people who love life and love freedom should be preparing for now is, A, the fact that with his Gates Ag One, he wants one agriculture on a planet with so much diversity. Our wetlands with rice are very different from our dry lands with millets. Our pond systems of Bengal are very different from the desert systems of Rajasthan . And the one agriculture he wants is this externally driven system whereto the chemicals after the wars are added. The GMOs post 1990s with the WTO and they were spread with the patenting. And now he wants to add digital agriculture farming without farmers. And of course the narrative today… Just like then, it was, we grow bread from air because we fixed nitrogen by burning fossil fuels. Well, that was a myth. They’ve ruined the land. They’ve ruined the oceans. They’ve ruined the climate. 300 times more deadly than carbon dioxide is the nitrous oxide that gets emitted from nitrogen fertilizers.

Vandana Shiva:
So, they said the soil is empty. I call it terra nullius. That was the legal jurisprudence of the colonial time. Then they patented the seed and made it look like life is empty. I called it bio nullius. And Mr. Gates is creating his new empire. I call it mente nullius, empty minds. We’ll empty out the minds by mining data and patenting it and turning everyone into zombies and evaluating them and assigning them value. And as the research said, you will own nothing. They will own everything. You will own nothing. And it’ll all be theirs. So, no commons, no public good, no shared values, just money, money, money in their hands, and then being an extractive machine. So, because since ’91, everything has been tried in the era that create the Gates. He wasn’t as rich as he was till the deregulation of finance and deregulation of IT.

Vandana Shiva:
The first WTO meeting he managed to become duty-free and tax-free for trade in information. That’s how all of these tech giants became so rich. At that time, the WTO said, seeds will be patented before that. And most seeds are not. The second thing was the Cargill’s will trade in agriculture and there’ll be no national sovereignty system to protect the rights to food. That’s what our farmers are fighting against right now. And the third was what they call sanitary and phytosanitary measures, which is ban good food and make junk food the only option. This is why we have chronic diseases.

Vandana Shiva:
Now, Gates is taking all of this to the next step. “There were laws created to prevent me from stealing. I’ll do digital genomic mapping and undercut all the international laws. And on international trade in food, if movements are growing for real food and food sovereignty, let me create fake food in the labs and create starvation and hunger through lockdown so there is no food, and destroy the farmers and do farming without farmers. And why worry only about Pepsi and junk food and Coca-Cola,” who are also the world’s biggest polluters in plastic, “No, no, no. What we’ll now do is make totally fake food. And we’ll make the right to good food a crime,” just like a right to know your health, the right to have the right medicine, the right for entire societies to have deep medical knowledge, that all that is turned into a crime. We’ve seen this happen-

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Let me give people an example of what you’re talking about. Gates owns a big stake in Philip Morris, which owns Kraft Foods and also owns General Foods. And they make processed foods. So, they make American cheese singles and Cheez Whiz. Those are so devoid of nutrition that the government makes those companies put in vitamins, vitamin A, Vitamin C, et cetera. There’s some vitamins in them. What Gates is doing now all across Africa and all across the world is he’s passing laws, buying off politicians and forcing through mandates for fortified food so that you will not be able to sell food in markets in Africa unless it’s fortified. Well, the goat cheese that the farmer makes in Maasai Mara in Kenya does not need fortification. It’ll already has all the nutrients we want in it. But that farmer will not be able to sell that goat cheese in his local market. Instead, cheesewhiz will be the monopoly there. And that’s one of the ways that he’s using what Vandana is saying about illegalizing health or outlawing healthy food to open up these markets and compel us to eat his dirty, filthy, poisonous food.

Vandana Shiva:
Two quick things. Two good things, Bobby. Phillip Morris was also the responsible for the high fructose corn syrup [inaudible 00:35:15] synthetic sugar that has caused cirrhosis in the liver in babies. And it’s added to every food because it’s addictive. The second is… India is such a land of diversity and richness. We always say in Hindustan, diversity is our way. We have so many snacks and so many [foreign language 00:35:33] and so many foods. You can’t taste the same thing in three places. It’s all unique. They banned all of this. I have watched it disappear. They banned cold press virgin oil mills. 5 million were shut down in ’98 when Cargill and Monsanto wanted to dump GMO soya. We’ve watched this happen. So it’s important to learn the lessons of the Green Revolution, of globalization. And now see how the concentration of all this in the hands of a Bill Gates is accelerating what was put in place. And we should do everything we’ve done to prevent a total takeover of our seed, our food, our freedom.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Vandana Shiva, we’re out of time. Thank you very much. Tell people how they can support you in your work.

Vandana Shiva:
Well, for anyone who’s listening, the first is… Earlier at the farm, we had learning experiences of how to learn from the earth and grow good food. But we right now are having these as Zoom courses. And you can go to the website of Navdanya, navdanya.org. You can become a seed warrior, a food warrior. Write to me at [email protected] And we also have an international program called Navdanya International, where we’ve just done a report, Gates to a Global Empire. You want to know more about what Gates is up to. Read that report. It’s available for free download. And let us make this year the year of transition away from the Gates empire, to the freedom of all life on this planet and all people of this planet in all their freedoms and in all their diversity.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Okay. So, [email protected]?

Vandana Shiva:
No, Vandana.shiva. Full stop in the middle. Vandana.shiva

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
[crosstalk 00:37:22] .shiva.

Vandana Shiva:
[email protected] And by the way, my name is Shiva because my parents fought caste. And they said, “We’re going to take a name that’s not a caste name.” They took a name off a divinity. In Christianity, there’s a Trinity, but we have millions of divinities. The grass is a divinity, and the soil is our divinity, and the rivers are divinities, and the mother ganga is our mother. And it’s beautiful. India is so beautiful in recognizing that divine forces in all life, and you must therefore protect them. But we also have a Trinity. And there’s Brahma, the creator, Vishnu, the maintainer, and Shiva, who destroys bad systems to create new ones. Let’s join hands to create new systems.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Perfect name for you Vandana. Thank you for joining me. And follow Vandana. And you can read my article on The Defender this week about our collaboration with Vandana Shiva. Thank you very much for joining us.

Vandana Shiva:
Thank you, Bobby. Bye-bye.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
Bye-bye.

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