CDC ACIP Meeting, June 23, 2023 – Meryl Nass, M.D.

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Dr. Sanchez chairs the work group on monkeypox. He shows some awful photos in severely immunocompromised AID patients to crank up the fear. Routine smallpox vaccinations stopped globally in 1980. The theory with no data is that this has allowed monkeypox to increase.
ACAM2000 is a live vaccinia virus vaccine–1 dose. The Jynneos vaccine is a dead vaccine used in 2 doses and there is a lack of contraindications for it because it simply has not been used enough to identify what they are.
However I reviewed licensing documents that FDA had last year and found it causes myocarditis.
So now they want to give it to children. Which can be done by hiding the facts.
Another thing being hidden is the clinical trial conducted by CDC’s Dr. Petersen in 2016-2020 in an anticipated 600 healthcare workers in the DRC Congo. Notably absent from the working group is Dr. Petersen. But he was a cdc contributor.
I note that Maldonado and Munoz have been included — both heavy hitters for getting difficult approvals through. Also included Dr. Cieslak, formerly DOD.
A few recent Chicago cases (2.5 per week–55% fully vaxed and 13% had gotten one dose.). There were no new mutations–which reveals that the vaccine does not actually work. Which is no surprise because if it worked they would have told us the results of the Congo study.
27 cases in pregnant women: 66% still pregnant and got experimental treatments. Guess what? I don’t believe them. The peak of monkeypox was last August and it has been ten months since then–so the majority should have delivered by now.
The experimental smallpox drug tecoviromat was given to neonates whose parents were infected. One newborn in the UK had 2 viruses and spent 2 weeks in the ICU.
Pedi cases (83) were less than 1% of total. HCW cases occurred due to work exposures–probably 23.
Of all those infected since last year, 37% has one dose and 23% had 2 doses. This does not look good for the vaccine.
VAERS and VSD are used for safety–that is it???? I think they did some targeted safety followup which is being hidden.
These systems claim no myocarditis seen. Now they are lying about this paralleling the clinical trials–because I have read the clinical trials
EPIC medical record company–this means the med record company is sharing its confidential patient records with CDC.
To study efficacy. But these data sources could also be used for safety–but they are not. Why?
NY case control study: VE adjusted for week of dx, region, age and 89% for 2 doses with very small numbers of cases. CDC concludes it is highly effective.
If it is so effective, why were most cases vaccinated? Duh?
The EPIC study had 173 million in it–suggesting half the population is subject to CDC getting their medical records. “That database has been used for covid cases as well as vaccine effectiveness study” says CDC official.
Americans should be aware that the medical record vendor is selling their data to CDC. Did they sign up for that?
Now people know why Obama spent hundreds of billions to get all our medical records into these large electronic systems: SURVEILLLANCE.
THE EFFECTIVENESS of intradermal vs subcutaneous (I thought it was intramuscular) is claimed to be similar–but we have seen no data to support this. The CDC is still evaluating hypotheses.
They are worried that immunity has waned over time–the vaxxed cases had been vaxxed on average 8 months earlier. What they do not want to see is lack of mutations –which is what they saw–cause they cannot blame mutations for the lack of efficacy.
Agam Rao claims the vaccine should be given post-exposure, but so far I have never seen data to support this practice.
They will talk about vaccinating pregnant, breastfeeding women, and kids.
Allegedly in Africa cases in kids under age 8 severity is more severe. But since 2006 there has been no difference in severity by age.
NO severe manifestations in US children in the recent outbreak–yet the UK case was presented and NO photos of mild cases have been shown.
These criminals have given the vaccine to over 700 children. Most in an NIH trial. They also lie about lack of efficacy data in children–actually there is no efficacy data in adults either
They are concerned they gave the wrong dose to 377 kids aged 0-11 but no further studies are planned.
For kids 6 mos to 17 years, the vaccine should be given if a high risk exposure has occurred. Remember that the disease is usually 1-5 blisters, like shingles, and does not require more than a bandaid.
It is unclear whether MPOX can be transmitted by breastmilk or by vagina but it is thought vaginal transmission can occur to neonates.
Raso claims it is unknown if Jynneos was given to pregnant person but an early slide claimed it was.
Not her slide.
Minhage’s slide had 66% of the pregnancies were still pregnant and so the outcome of vaxxed moms was unknown in babies–this is an old trick, claiming the women have not delivered yet.
Not contraindicated in pregnancy–no human data–these people are criminals
Now we move on to health care workers and lab workers. To date there are no lab personnel who developed monkeypox. The HCWs supposedly got it through bad PPE or sharps injuries.
By PCR there is virus in many sites but they could not culture most of it.
the work group said that lab workers and HCWs at risk of MPOX should get pre-exposure vax and lab workers should get it (Jynneos) based on shared decisionmaking. What this means is that if there is no reason to give the vaccine, they recommend shared decisionmaking.
ACAM2000 is no longer recommended. Guess why? One in 175 recipients got myocarditis! Which no one has dared mention yet–but I have a CDC slide from last year that CDC has subsequently removed from its website with that information.
Administration guidance: you can give covid and jynneos together–why not? The more the merrier.
Now they admit there is a hypothetical risk of myocarditis that has not yet shown up in VAERS!
Which is why maybe you should wait a month between them… no discussion of why you are unlikely to benefit from either shot.
Yes it is a subcut injection–wonder why? Also I wanted to see a comparison of the two routes of administration and dose, since the intradermal dose is 1/5th the sub cu dose.
Some laboratorians want the ACAM vaccine–duh??? It is amusing to see the slowing of speech by CDC officials as they try to figure out what they can and can’t say–they wanted to avoid discussion of spread of the varicella ACAM vaccine from its site to other people of locations on one body.
Why would you give any vaccine when you know it can cause myocarditis at high rates which is undiagnosed in most cases, and puts people at risk of sudden death, heart failure, etc.
CDC is asked about a stillbirth and denies they have any useful details.
Sandra Fryhofer says the website slides are different–well, they are very different from what got posted last year about ACAM2000. Dr. Rao denies they are different, just moved around, but Dr. Fryhofer says no, they are very different, and is trying to help CDC reminding them to remove the evidence on the website!
Here is the CDC website which contains all the slides from all the talks for this meeting: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/slides-2023-06-21-23.html
Now they are basically discussing liability without using the word–the members were not informed that vaccinating children was off label; the vaccine was not licensed for kids or pregnancy, and they didn’t know this. So everyone is trying to put blame for this omission elsewhere.
CDC ‘s clinical guidance says to vaccinate children and fails to inform that the vaccine is not licensed for this use. The members argue about the wording, suggest may be a call to a CDC expert should be done–no one wants a kid to get myocarditis and the vax was not licensed for them and the doc would be on the hook. Note that no one has mentioned liability; instead they talk around the issue.
I took a screen shot of the “Clinical guidance” that will now have to change as a result of this discussion. Slide 60 per Dr. Rao but it is unnumbered. I doubt CDC made this mistake by mistake.
I will try and find last year’s CDC slides that do admit 1 in 175 recipients of ACAM2000 gets myocarditis. There is no slide admitting the myocarditis from Jynneos–for that, you have to read the licensing documents buried in the FDA website, but required to be in the public domain .
This group of cowards are very good at worrying about their own butts but are awful at worrying about the kids in their care: all the kids in the US. Grace and Melinda suggest highlighting the severity of the exposure as if this will cover the doctors.
Why not just put into the guidance that it is not licensed for kids? This simple fix would result in fewer vaccinations, so that is probably why they don’t want to include it.
Dr. Brooks asks if the unlicensed vaccine is covered under CICP? Yes if there is a declaration, for both ACAM and Jynneos.
Neither is covered under VICP? Dr. Grimes says it depends on a PREP Act declaration, which has been continuously in effect for smallpox/orthopox viruses. If it lapsed there would be a coverage lapse.
Final Rao presentation on long-term prevention of monkeypox.
Should more Jynneos doses be given for longer term prevention. Now they admit the Congo study and it involved 1,600 subjects. DC has done a study in 330 people.
170 Congolese got a booster.
Why did they hide the Congo study next year? Did they need time to figure out how to spin the results, or what to hide?
last year
The Chicago cluster led to no hospitalizations and opiates were generally not needed for pain control–since pain is the main adverse symptom of the moneypox infection, just like shingles.
No third dose indicated in general.
But what about late HIV or immunocompromise? DRC HCP who got a booster 5 years later had considerably more side effects than from the first 2 doses. They show immediate reactogenicity but not more serious side effects.
In 30 HIV positive subjects, only a little more severe side effects happened after the third dose. The work group decided that if the word got out that a third dose caused more severe side effects, it could stop people being vaxxed with first doses. This contributed to the workgroup not recommending a 3d dose.
Now there is a song and dance that in the vaxxed, moneypox was not severe. Duh. In everyone they were not severe unless you were end stage immunocompromised, whether HIV positive or not.
Clearly this is CDC’s fallback: being vaxxed may not prevent illness but it prevents severe illness. Can you hear Rochelle Walensky telling this to Congress, despite lack of real evidence, just a lot of handwaving and spindoctoring.
22.7% of cases had received 2 doses in the US, 36.7% got one dose–so what about the other 40%???
Does that mean that 60% of cases had already been vaccinated?
Blah blah blah
The Congo and DC studies were mentioned but efficacy and real safety in those groups was never presented.
Dr. Cotton wants the right to give more doses despite lack of evidence to support it, based on her clinical opinion.
The thing is, the vaccine can be made to look very good, until you dig really deep–and none of these docs is going to dig that deep.
ten min break
Meningococcal vaccines next. In Feb we told you about the epidemiology of meningococcal disease; a Pfizer vaccine trial data; and then the WG interpretation of Pfizer’s dta.
: This is a pentavalent vaccine for both Men A, C, Y. W35 and Men B in one shot.
Oh no another economic model for cost-effectiveness. It is not clear to me that this vaccine makes any sense–why not give out a packet of antibiotic as soon as there is fever, stiff neck, headache–any two, start antibiotics. Because no one has showed, to my knowledge, how well these vaccines prevent meningococcal invasive infections, which can be treated 100% of the time with antibiotics.
GIGO, for those unaware, means garbage in, garbage out–so this model uses “the best data available” which is unfortunately not that good, which is why they are using a model at all.
The incidence rates may not take into account that rates were dropping fast before any of the vaccines were used in kids
As I said, he is careful to avoid rates of disease by year
And the serious sequelae are emphasized. They are not to be sneezed at, but we are talking about one in a million cases and about 1/10that with chronic effects.
The waning of efficacy is “assumed”
over a time period that is being guessed at.
To make the model show cost effectiveness a considerable fudge factor is included to account for costs of lifetime care for each longterm sequella
: And a cumulative number of deaths over 70 years is included–even then the Men B deaths prevented is almost nil.
You would have to vax nearly 2 million to prevent one men b death and nearly 200,000 to prevent one Men A death–but I think this is low.
Here you can see the number of meningococcus cases by year and by age in the US and you can see that there is only one in a million cases, even in college kids and military recruits, it only goes up to maybe 2 per million per year, and it is lower for all other age groups excepts tiny babies, who are too young to get vaxxed.
https://www.cdc.gov/meningococcal/surveillance/index.html
At least he admits that adding the Men B is extremely expensive for marginal benefit
Dr. Long doesn’t want to pay another dime for convenience for the Men B given the lack of cases and high cost. Leoehr notes the assumption of efficacy is too high, too long.
Why didn’t they pile on like this yesterday when the vaccine caused premature labors?
Pfizer requests to jump in–and another Spanish speaker jumps in to defend his vax. This simplifies care and reduces doses and allows simpler storge for docs.
They suggest a single dose of their 2 dose-licensed vaccine–in other words they are willing to jettison their second dose to save the product!
Now for the ETR madness with Sam Crowe PhD.
Note that vaccine side effects have not been mentioned and appear to be unknown, perhaps because they were not collected–yet kids through the US are told to get these in order to attend school.
poor evidence but sae’s were doubled in vax group compared to placebo
89% of adolescents get Men A vax and 31% get the B vax. No doubt this is due to mandates
WHY do they pretend that patients come in with their own ideas about what they want? Patients always want a discussion and consider the doctor to be more knowledgeable; once they find out the docs are conflicts by the bonuses they get, patients may do their own research a bit more.
I don’t understand why, but after all of this, showing all sorts of reasons why not to use this vax, they are not going to hold a vote!
The only explanation for not holding a vote now, when all the info has been provided, is to allow time for the members to forget what was presented today so they provide a stronger recommendation in favor at some future time.
Now we head to a question that only 12% of kids get the second Men B dose. We just heard the modeller give incorrect info about the number of total cases of meningitis–CDC just corrected him to a max 350 total cases per year in the prevax era and currently there are almost no cases in the 11-15 year age group.
That was Dr Ortega-Sanchez giving total cases in the prevaccine era for all age groups. 350 cases. Then it went down on a straight trajectory, unrelated to the start of vaccination, but continued to drop after vaccine was instituted as part of the childhood schedule about ten years ago.
The CDC briefer said rates are going up now. I’d love to see current rates. The CDC site I provided an hour ago stops at 2020.
And in 2020 the rates were still dropping. https://www.cdc.gov/meningococcal/surveillance/index.html
Why do more kids avoid the second B dose than get it? 12% get 2 doses, 19% get 1 dose, and 69% of kids get no B doses. Why do most (61% of those who get a single B dose) refuse the second shot?
While Pfizer suggested one B dose was enough, the CDC briefer just chimed in and said no, 1 dose is not sufficiently immunogenic, though they are waiting for more data from Pfizer.
Why would anyone ever take a Pfizer vaccine again?
Grace: why not rethink the schedule for meningococcus entirely? YES–why give it before college/military service?
Last time I looked several years ago, between 1 and 25% of the population carries meningococcus in their noses, regardless of whether they were vaccinated or not. Which raises the question whether the vaccine prevents cases and spread? Prevents invasive disease, which means pneumonia, sepsis, meningitis?
Now Tom Shimabukuro will talk about the entire childhood schedule and safety–somethin that has not been studied heretofore. Very interesting.
He is from the Immunization Safety Office and I have previously documented how he lied about myocarditis from covid vaccines. He has been a reliable spin doc.
In 2013 the IOM (now NAM) said the whole schedule was never studied and should be noting the VSD as one way it could be done.
CDC responded in 2014 with a next steps document.
“CDC takes vaccines safety very seriously”. and now for Matt Daley from ACIP and Kaiser.
He starts off saying the IOM report was NOT in response to any identified problems…. it concluded the safety of the schedule as a whole but identified evidence gaps.
The 2013 report had stronger language about the need for such safety evaluation than anything else official that I can recall.
He does his best to minimize possible problems, yada yada
A matched case-control study is one of the easiest to fudge. Since the VSD includes 12 million Americans, why not use ALL the data in it–since Matt already concluded the unvaxxed are likely to be different from the vaxxed in various ways. Why reduce your power before you start when you are studying something hard to tease out?
you could adjust to get rid of chronically ill kids identified by a certain age, or various other ways, rather than being able to cherry pick the healthiest vaccinated kids as your comparators in a case-control study.
Aluminum amount injected was inversely related to getting diabetes. GIGO for sure. He did some of these studies.
Comparing asthma and eczema with aluminum injections (as a surrogate for amount of vaccine uptake). It seems more aluminum is related to more asthma and more eczema, but he is careful to say literature already showed this.
Anders Hviid 2009-2016 all children born in this period wer included in Denmark. Denmark did have a change in its data collection, which may or may not have preceded this data collection.
They used less PCV and DPT doses in kids
They did not add the meningitis vax at age 12. They did not include Hep A or Hep B on their childhood schedule.
Nearly 1/2 million kids included. Only 5-6,000 completely unvaxxed (1%) same as in US.
No relationship between the amount of vax aluminum and development of asthma.
Well that took a long time to tell us very little. It is clever to avoid looking at many outcomes and confining the studies to mainly asthma and eczema. Also, why did Daley find a relationship and Hviid fail to find one?
Now we will hear about the wonderful COVID vaccines and this should be of great interest.
Dr Fiona Havers will tell us about her study covidnet. 250 acute hospitals in 13 states and covers about 10% of the US population.
asian pacific islanders have the lowest hospitalization rates for covid. Native popns highest, black next high.
Grist for the equity mill.
Pregnant women after the vaccines rolled out–she does not explain why 2020 is omitted from her data. Less than 400 people included.
Only 1 death.
Only one pregnant woman had a bivalent booster–which she says indicates how effective it is!
She gets a promotion for that claim. Instead of admitting that very young babies just get sicker from anything, the graphs are designed to make us think covid is now more dangerous for babies–relative to its danger for older people.
Then there are the CDC definitions, another huge problem. Just think of all these young doctors being taught how to mislead themselves and the public. What will we be able to do with them after the age of Lies has passed? We can’t trust them with data.
And they chose to work for CDC and not treat patients–which means to me they get paid less to avoid practicing medicine and have a high tolerance for lies and cheating. So what to do with these doctors? Can we ever trust them to take care fo patients? Are they retrainable? They are clever to a fault. They are glib. They are obedient.
With a truth and reconciliation commission we can see which will tell the truth about their work at CDC.
What garbage. Every infection is a problem in pregnancy, since the immune system is downregulated so you don’t reject your fetus. Not just covid. Remember how we were scared to death about the 2009 flu in pregnancy? That was a huge huge deal, with a number of pregnant women on ECMO. Then it turned out the 2009 flu was nothing–milder than normal flu.
Who are the henny penny’s who create the fear mongering at the onset of every new infection?
VISION electronic health record network. WHOSE records? Did you sign a consent? Did you know?
In order to get vaccine efficacy above 50%, you have to stop looking at efficacy by one and a half months. And since the first two weeks don’t count, you only get a month during which efficacy exceeds 50%
And this was when the bivalent booster actually matched the virus in circulation.
IVY Network, more medical records you did not know were being scrutinized by Uncle Sam. By 5 months there is no efficacy. By 7 months it is negative.
Overcoming covid looks at kids whose moms were vaxxed during pregnancy.
Bivalent vax during pregnancy –by kids aged avg 74 days efficacy is 38%–not very good
We have heard not a word about safety, just so you know, regarding the bivalent and monovalent covid vaccines so far.
None of this is published–we just have to take CDC’s word that it is telling us the truth and because it collects data from many sites, no other entity can challenge them as no other has access to all the data.
“Thanks for the countless hours from my teammates ensuring high quality data”–CYFBI?
Poehling loves that the data show this is not a benign disease in children. Isn’t that sweet. She just loves that the vaccine is protective and is what is needed–which is confirmed by the CDC briefer.
Dr. Long: Waning of protection is very worrisome; 180 days and you are almost out of benefit.
Tell us about the new booster and new generation vaccines. says Long
Now we hear the story that IVY and VISION show sustained benefit against mechanical ventilation. We have not solved the for vs with–says the briefer–but CDC created that problem (by paying off the CSTE to write new definitions using 8 CDC briefers) and can redefine their case definitions and solve it in a NY minute
Sara Oliver jumps in–Amanda’s twin–explains how you have to look at all the data together and then it doesn’t look so bad.
Low current hospitalization rates supposedly are a tribute to the vaccine. NOte: no one has used the words “negative efficacy” today. But they are getting ready to present hybrid immunity. Can they get any lower?
A bunch of CDC’s worst spin doctors were involved in this presentation. That shows they got out their big guns to fool us. John Su, Shimabukuro, Michael McNeil, Melinda Wharton, Amanda Cohn, Link-Gelles, Jose Romero
Blood donor blood samples are used to distinguish the vaxxed, infected, both, etc. Are these volunteer blood donors or paid serum donors?
By last December 93% of kids aged 5 and up had been infected. Antibody levels are highest in those with hybrid immunity–but not by that much.
WHO data supposedly shows that hybrid immunity is better than infection of vax alone –except that waning after a first booster happens quickest.
or vax alone. Why would we trust WHO? CDC? CDC has proven over and over that it spins its data to support policy, rather than policy following data.
And Rochelle was so bad at hiding this they have hired a better spin doctor to replace her.
For those who missed my tweet, the study from cleveland clinic in 50,000 employees shows that in fact hybrid immunity is a lie. Employees who were vaccinated and infected were more likely to get covid again compared to those who had gotten infected but were never vaccinated.
It was a popular tweet sent 3-4 days ago, has had about 40,000 views
The NAS is having a meeting on long covid right now
Last presentation with repeat slides from Megan Wallace. The spin is distilled. Vaccination in pregnancy “appears” to be helpful for the first 6 months of life.
23% of pregnant people received an updated dose. Goes to show 77% have wized up.
Yay for hybrid immunity. What a pathetic way to justify their poisonous vaccines. Why do these CDC apparatchiks want to damage children?
They want to lower the number of doses so they can get it into more little kids. They call it simplifying the vaccinations.
6-24 month old have had the highest hospitalization rate in the past year. They may in future recommend a 2 dose initial series and yearly boosters for 2-4 year olds. Yearly boosters of poison for what is almost always asymptomatic in little children.
They say vaccines will transition to the commercial marketplace in fall 2023. That is not what was told to VRBPAC last week.
Millions of adults will lose access to free vaccines if this happens. What a terrible thing that would be.
“covid vaccines continue to be the most effective tool we have to prevent serious illness, hospitalization and death from Covid-19”–
I can’t wait for the commercialization since they won’t be able to force mandates.
CDC is putting in a place a stopgap measure in fall-December 2024 to get free vax for those who might have to pay for it.
Dr Poehling is so relieved by that.
Yay it is only 15 minutes overdue and it is done